grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC

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grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC

aoohralex
Sry for my English – it isn't my national language.

I have started learn ZF because I wanted to learn something new.
If we have range 0 – 10. My knowledge ZF is 1 – I can make basic things in ZF – connect to database, queries insert/update/delete, basic zend forms, authorization, use jquery and layout in zend, controllers, views.
My knowledge Symfony Framework is 5. My knowledge ASP.NET MVC (not ASP.NET) is 4.

Now I can say that ZF is very bad framework or maybe rather it isn't a framework. Everybody knows that authors of PHP are always late and behind – for example PHP is really OO from version v5 (eariel it was only some OO elements in PHP). The same is in Zend Framework – this framework is behind others frameworks.

First - Zend_Db is nothing compared to Doctrine ORM. Using Zend_Db I have to create myself models: http://framework.zend.com/docs/quickstart/create-a-model-and-database-table !!!!! In Symfony Framework with Doctrine ORM and in ASP.NET MVC with Linq to SQL I don't need because it is wasting of time – there it is automatic – in Symfony using console and in ASP.NET MVC using Visual Studio. Of course Doctrine and Linq to SQL have got more better things.

In Zend Framework almost nothing you can do using console (of course almost nothing compared to Symfony) – in Symfony using console you can generate much more (I don't use in Symfony console to generate modules, controllers or forms but for begginners it is very comfortable). In ASP.NET MVC I don't need use console but Visual Studio but ASP.NET MVC is very young so generated controllers/views etc. don't have so good code as in Symfony. In ASP>NET MVC and Symfony Framework I don't need to enable layout like in Zend Framework. The most horrible thing in Zend it was for me Zend_Acl – using that I can't still make that only logged users can have access to action 'add' controller 'books' – in Symfony I can make that using 2 lines of code in module 'books':

add:
  is_secure: on

and in ASP.NET one line of code in controller:

[Authorize]

What is more in Symfony and ASP.NET MVC we have tables in database and everything else related with users, authorization etc. created in these frameworks – in Zend I must myself do that.
There is of course more good things in these frameworks – better than in Zend.

Documentation – hahah – in Zend documentation is chaotic, is HORRIBLE !! Have you ever seen documentation of Symfony or ASP.NET MVC ? I have never seen worse documentation than in Zend.

For me Zend isn't a framework but rather components that we can use in other frameworks – for example Zend Lucene in Symfony: http://www.symfony-project.org/jobeet/1_2/Doctrine/en/17 

As I thought – authors of PHP are always late and they are always behind so Zend is always late and behind. For now Symfony and ASP.NET MVC are from XXI age, Zend is from XX age.

This was my compare these frameworks.
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Re: grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC

Jurian Sluiman-4
Uuhm, you don't have to use the framework.


There are many choices besides ZF you're not using either. So why don't you leave the ZF where it is and stop using it? You're not buying a car you don't like, are you? Please stop spamming the list with your nonsense.
--
Jurian Sluiman
Soflomo.com


Op Tuesday 22 September 2009 20:30:49 schreef aoohralex:
> Sry for my English – it isn't my national language.
>
> I have started learn ZF because I wanted to learn something new.
> If we have range 0 – 10. My knowledge ZF is 1 – I can make basic things in
> ZF – connect to database, queries insert/update/delete, basic zend forms,
> authorization, use jquery and layout in zend, controllers, views.
> My knowledge Symfony Framework is 5. My knowledge ASP.NET MVC (not ASP.NET)
> is 4.
>
> Now I can say that ZF is very bad framework or maybe rather it isn't a
> framework. Everybody knows that authors of PHP are always late and behind –
> for example PHP is really OO from version v5 (eariel it was only some OO
> elements in PHP). The same is in Zend Framework – this framework is behind
> others frameworks.
>
> First - Zend_Db is nothing compared to Doctrine ORM. Using Zend_Db I have
> to create myself models:
> http://framework.zend.com/docs/quickstart/create-a-model-and-database-table
> !!!!! In Symfony Framework with Doctrine ORM and in ASP.NET MVC with Linq
> to SQL I don't need because it is wasting of time – there it is automatic –
> in Symfony using console and in ASP.NET MVC using Visual Studio. Of course
> Doctrine and Linq to SQL have got more better things.
>
> In Zend Framework almost nothing you can do using console (of course almost
> nothing compared to Symfony) – in Symfony using console you can generate
> much more (I don't use in Symfony console to generate modules, controllers
> or forms but for begginners it is very comfortable). In ASP.NET MVC I don't
> need use console but Visual Studio but ASP.NET MVC is very young so
> generated controllers/views etc. don't have so good code as in Symfony. In
> ASP>NET MVC and Symfony Framework I don't need to enable layout like in
> Zend Framework. The most horrible thing in Zend it was for me Zend_Acl –
> using that I can't still make that only logged users can have access to
> action 'add' controller 'books' – in Symfony I can make that using 2 lines
> of code in module 'books':
>
> add:
> is_secure: on
>
> and in ASP.NET one line of code in controller:
>
> [Authorize]
>
> What is more in Symfony and ASP.NET MVC we have tables in database and
> everything else related with users, authorization etc. created in these
> frameworks – in Zend I must myself do that.
> There is of course more good things in these frameworks – better than in
> Zend.
>
> Documentation – hahah – in Zend documentation is chaotic, is HORRIBLE !!
> Have you ever seen documentation of Symfony or ASP.NET MVC ? I have never
> seen worse documentation than in Zend.
>
> For me Zend isn't a framework but rather components that we can use in
> other frameworks – for example Zend Lucene in Symfony:
> http://www.symfony-project.org/jobeet/1_2/Doctrine/en/17
>
> As I thought – authors of PHP are always late and they are always behind so
> Zend is always late and behind. For now Symfony and ASP.NET MVC are from
> XXI age, Zend is from XX age.
>
> This was my compare these frameworks.


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Re: grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC

lcf
In reply to this post by aoohralex
Zend Framework provides flexibility. That's the point. You're probably not good enough to understand that. So I think it's one of the moments when you need to go somewhere else and learn something new.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 10:30 PM, aoohralex <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sry for my English – it isn't my national language.

I have started learn ZF because I wanted to learn something new.
If we have range 0 – 10. My knowledge ZF is 1 – I can make basic things in
ZF – connect to database, queries insert/update/delete, basic zend forms,
authorization, use jquery and layout in zend, controllers, views.
My knowledge Symfony Framework is 5. My knowledge ASP.NET MVC (not ASP.NET)
is 4.

Now I can say that ZF is very bad framework or maybe rather it isn't a
framework. Everybody knows that authors of PHP are always late and behind –
for example PHP is really OO from version v5 (eariel it was only some OO
elements in PHP). The same is in Zend Framework – this framework is behind
others frameworks.

First - Zend_Db is nothing compared to Doctrine ORM. Using Zend_Db I have to
create myself models:
http://framework.zend.com/docs/quickstart/create-a-model-and-database-table
!!!!! In Symfony Framework with Doctrine ORM and in ASP.NET MVC with Linq to
SQL I don't need because it is wasting of time – there it is automatic – in
Symfony using console and in ASP.NET MVC using Visual Studio. Of course
Doctrine and Linq to SQL have got more better things.

In Zend Framework almost nothing you can do using console (of course almost
nothing compared to Symfony) – in Symfony using console you can generate
much more (I don't use in Symfony console to generate modules, controllers
or forms but for begginners it is very comfortable). In ASP.NET MVC I don't
need use console but Visual Studio but ASP.NET MVC is very young so
generated controllers/views etc. don't have so good code as in Symfony. In
ASP>NET MVC and Symfony Framework I don't need to enable layout like in Zend
Framework. The most horrible thing in Zend it was for me Zend_Acl – using
that I can't still make that only logged users can have access to action
'add' controller 'books' – in Symfony I can make that using 2 lines of code
in module 'books':

add:
 is_secure: on

and in ASP.NET one line of code in controller:

[Authorize]

What is more in Symfony and ASP.NET MVC we have tables in database and
everything else related with users, authorization etc. created in these
frameworks – in Zend I must myself do that.
There is of course more good things in these frameworks – better than in
Zend.

Documentation – hahah – in Zend documentation is chaotic, is HORRIBLE !!
Have you ever seen documentation of Symfony or ASP.NET MVC ? I have never
seen worse documentation than in Zend.

For me Zend isn't a framework but rather components that we can use in other
frameworks – for example Zend Lucene in Symfony:
http://www.symfony-project.org/jobeet/1_2/Doctrine/en/17

As I thought – authors of PHP are always late and they are always behind so
Zend is always late and behind. For now Symfony and ASP.NET MVC are from XXI
age, Zend is from XX age.

This was my compare these frameworks.

--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/grade-zend-framework-and-compared-to-Symfony-and-ASP.NET-MVC-tp25530860p25530860.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




--
Alexander Steshenko | http://lcf.name

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Re: grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC

Diego Potapczuk
In reply to this post by aoohralex
You made some good points, i agree on some, but, isnt Symfony a PHP Framework?



::: Diego Potapczuk

»» NEAD - Núcleo de Educação a Distância
»» SENAI-BA
»» Tel: (71) 3287-8343 / (71) 9144-3062
»» http://www.diegoliveira.com.br


On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 3:30 PM, aoohralex <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sry for my English – it isn't my national language.

I have started learn ZF because I wanted to learn something new.
If we have range 0 – 10. My knowledge ZF is 1 – I can make basic things in
ZF – connect to database, queries insert/update/delete, basic zend forms,
authorization, use jquery and layout in zend, controllers, views.
My knowledge Symfony Framework is 5. My knowledge ASP.NET MVC (not ASP.NET)
is 4.

Now I can say that ZF is very bad framework or maybe rather it isn't a
framework. Everybody knows that authors of PHP are always late and behind –
for example PHP is really OO from version v5 (eariel it was only some OO
elements in PHP). The same is in Zend Framework – this framework is behind
others frameworks.

First - Zend_Db is nothing compared to Doctrine ORM. Using Zend_Db I have to
create myself models:
http://framework.zend.com/docs/quickstart/create-a-model-and-database-table
!!!!! In Symfony Framework with Doctrine ORM and in ASP.NET MVC with Linq to
SQL I don't need because it is wasting of time – there it is automatic – in
Symfony using console and in ASP.NET MVC using Visual Studio. Of course
Doctrine and Linq to SQL have got more better things.

In Zend Framework almost nothing you can do using console (of course almost
nothing compared to Symfony) – in Symfony using console you can generate
much more (I don't use in Symfony console to generate modules, controllers
or forms but for begginners it is very comfortable). In ASP.NET MVC I don't
need use console but Visual Studio but ASP.NET MVC is very young so
generated controllers/views etc. don't have so good code as in Symfony. In
ASP>NET MVC and Symfony Framework I don't need to enable layout like in Zend
Framework. The most horrible thing in Zend it was for me Zend_Acl – using
that I can't still make that only logged users can have access to action
'add' controller 'books' – in Symfony I can make that using 2 lines of code
in module 'books':

add:
 is_secure: on

and in ASP.NET one line of code in controller:

[Authorize]

What is more in Symfony and ASP.NET MVC we have tables in database and
everything else related with users, authorization etc. created in these
frameworks – in Zend I must myself do that.
There is of course more good things in these frameworks – better than in
Zend.

Documentation – hahah – in Zend documentation is chaotic, is HORRIBLE !!
Have you ever seen documentation of Symfony or ASP.NET MVC ? I have never
seen worse documentation than in Zend.

For me Zend isn't a framework but rather components that we can use in other
frameworks – for example Zend Lucene in Symfony:
http://www.symfony-project.org/jobeet/1_2/Doctrine/en/17

As I thought – authors of PHP are always late and they are always behind so
Zend is always late and behind. For now Symfony and ASP.NET MVC are from XXI
age, Zend is from XX age.

This was my compare these frameworks.

--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/grade-zend-framework-and-compared-to-Symfony-and-ASP.NET-MVC-tp25530860p25530860.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC

latterd
In reply to this post by aoohralex
I can make basic things in
ZF – connect to database, queries insert/update/delete, basic zend forms,
authorization, use jquery and layout in zend, controllers, views.


Sounds good if you can do all that and you say you are only at grade 1, says something about ZF to me.

Thanks
Daniel Latter


2009/9/22 aoohralex <[hidden email]>

Sry for my English – it isn't my national language.

I have started learn ZF because I wanted to learn something new.
If we have range 0 – 10. My knowledge ZF is 1 – I can make basic things in
ZF – connect to database, queries insert/update/delete, basic zend forms,
authorization, use jquery and layout in zend, controllers, views.
My knowledge Symfony Framework is 5. My knowledge ASP.NET MVC (not ASP.NET)
is 4.

Now I can say that ZF is very bad framework or maybe rather it isn't a
framework. Everybody knows that authors of PHP are always late and behind –
for example PHP is really OO from version v5 (eariel it was only some OO
elements in PHP). The same is in Zend Framework – this framework is behind
others frameworks.

First - Zend_Db is nothing compared to Doctrine ORM. Using Zend_Db I have to
create myself models:
http://framework.zend.com/docs/quickstart/create-a-model-and-database-table
!!!!! In Symfony Framework with Doctrine ORM and in ASP.NET MVC with Linq to
SQL I don't need because it is wasting of time – there it is automatic – in
Symfony using console and in ASP.NET MVC using Visual Studio. Of course
Doctrine and Linq to SQL have got more better things.

In Zend Framework almost nothing you can do using console (of course almost
nothing compared to Symfony) – in Symfony using console you can generate
much more (I don't use in Symfony console to generate modules, controllers
or forms but for begginners it is very comfortable). In ASP.NET MVC I don't
need use console but Visual Studio but ASP.NET MVC is very young so
generated controllers/views etc. don't have so good code as in Symfony. In
ASP>NET MVC and Symfony Framework I don't need to enable layout like in Zend
Framework. The most horrible thing in Zend it was for me Zend_Acl – using
that I can't still make that only logged users can have access to action
'add' controller 'books' – in Symfony I can make that using 2 lines of code
in module 'books':

add:
 is_secure: on

and in ASP.NET one line of code in controller:

[Authorize]

What is more in Symfony and ASP.NET MVC we have tables in database and
everything else related with users, authorization etc. created in these
frameworks – in Zend I must myself do that.
There is of course more good things in these frameworks – better than in
Zend.

Documentation – hahah – in Zend documentation is chaotic, is HORRIBLE !!
Have you ever seen documentation of Symfony or ASP.NET MVC ? I have never
seen worse documentation than in Zend.

For me Zend isn't a framework but rather components that we can use in other
frameworks – for example Zend Lucene in Symfony:
http://www.symfony-project.org/jobeet/1_2/Doctrine/en/17

As I thought – authors of PHP are always late and they are always behind so
Zend is always late and behind. For now Symfony and ASP.NET MVC are from XXI
age, Zend is from XX age.

This was my compare these frameworks.

--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/grade-zend-framework-and-compared-to-Symfony-and-ASP.NET-MVC-tp25530860p25530860.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC

padraicb
In reply to this post by aoohralex
a) ZF is a framework - though it may have been deceiving me all these years...
b) Zend_Db is not Doctrine, it's not even an ORM.
c) You can use Doctrine with ZF. I kid you not.
d) Nothing you said indicated that "PHP is behind". Take a peek at how Rails+merb are evolving. Flexibility is key.
e) PHP 5 is positively ancient, and has been OO for years.
f) You criticise the console functionality, but then say you don't use it.
g) You forget people have seen your other emails, and you also profess your knowledge is minimal.
h) I can't really argue about the documentation since I actually agree...damn ;).

Honestly, no framework will ever work for you until you spend time with it. It takes months to get to the point where you make a framework work for you. That goes for ALL frameworks. Judging one based on mere days of use will get you nowhere.
 
Pádraic Brady

http://blog.astrumfutura.com
http://www.survivethedeepend.com
OpenID Europe Foundation Irish Representative



From: aoohralex <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:30:49 PM
Subject: [fw-general] grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC


Sry for my English – it isn't my national language.

I have started learn ZF because I wanted to learn something new.
If we have range 0 – 10. My knowledge ZF is 1 – I can make basic things in
ZF – connect to database, queries insert/update/delete, basic zend forms,
authorization, use jquery and layout in zend, controllers, views.
My knowledge Symfony Framework is 5. My knowledge ASP.NET MVC (not ASP.NET)
is 4.

Now I can say that ZF is very bad framework or maybe rather it isn't a
framework. Everybody knows that authors of PHP are always late and behind –
for example PHP is really OO from version v5 (eariel it was only some OO
elements in PHP). The same is in Zend Framework – this framework is behind
others frameworks.

First - Zend_Db is nothing compared to Doctrine ORM. Using Zend_Db I have to
create myself models:
http://framework.zend.com/docs/quickstart/create-a-model-and-database-table
!!!!! In Symfony Framework with Doctrine ORM and in ASP.NET MVC with Linq to
SQL I don't need because it is wasting of time – there it is automatic – in
Symfony using console and in ASP.NET MVC using Visual Studio. Of course
Doctrine and Linq to SQL have got more better things.

In Zend Framework almost nothing you can do using console (of course almost
nothing compared to Symfony) – in Symfony using console you can generate
much more (I don't use in Symfony console to generate modules, controllers
or forms but for begginners it is very comfortable). In ASP.NET MVC I don't
need use console but Visual Studio but ASP.NET MVC is very young so
generated controllers/views etc. don't have so good code as in Symfony. In
ASP>NET MVC and Symfony Framework I don't need to enable layout like in Zend
Framework. The most horrible thing in Zend it was for me Zend_Acl – using
that I can't still make that only logged users can have access to action
'add' controller 'books' – in Symfony I can make that using 2 lines of code
in module 'books':

add:
  is_secure: on

and in ASP.NET one line of code in controller:

[Authorize]

What is more in Symfony and ASP.NET MVC we have tables in database and
everything else related with users, authorization etc. created in these
frameworks – in Zend I must myself do that.
There is of course more good things in these frameworks – better than in
Zend.

Documentation – hahah – in Zend documentation is chaotic, is HORRIBLE !!
Have you ever seen documentation of Symfony or ASP.NET MVC ? I have never
seen worse documentation than in Zend.

For me Zend isn't a framework but rather components that we can use in other
frameworks – for example Zend Lucene in Symfony:
http://www.symfony-project.org/jobeet/1_2/Doctrine/en/17

As I thought – authors of PHP are always late and they are always behind so
Zend is always late and behind. For now Symfony and ASP.NET MVC are from XXI
age, Zend is from XX age.

This was my compare these frameworks.

--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/grade-zend-framework-and-compared-to-Symfony-and-ASP.NET-MVC-tp25530860p25530860.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC

David Mintz
Yeah but ZF has the most incredibly patient, tolerant, indulgent, forgiving community of users -- perhaps too much so! Why do I keep reading these threads? Because I am looking for a good flamewar, but it's so hard to bait these equanimous ZFers that none is forthcoming. It's getting really boring. Enough is enough. Please stop your insufferable whining and go away.

Thank you.


--
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

The subtle source is clear and bright
The tributary streams flow through the darkness
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Re: grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC

Cameron
In reply to this post by aoohralex
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Re: grade zend framework and compared to Symfony and ASP.NET MVC

neobeacon
In reply to this post by aoohralex
I'm a student and I'm really new for Zend Framework.Yes,PHP and Zend is little bit behind than some other languages and Frameworks.But they are always easy to learn and have appropriate power they want and especially clean.Zend also open source,If you have any idea how would be this in future,I think you can make new suggestions in more formal way.