download source translation files?

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download source translation files?

waigani-2
Hi All,

To use Zend_Translate, do I have to create my own translation file (.tmx etc)? Are there any plans on having default translation files as part of the framework? Or is there a directory of translation files out there that I can down load from?

Thanks for your time,
Jess
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Re: download source translation files?

Thomas Weidner
Hy Jess,

what do you mean with "default translation file" ?
For every application the "default" set is different so it's impossible to
have a default translation available which is delivered with the framework.

What we will do as soon as the proposal is accepted, is to provide
translations for all exceptions the framework throws.
There is a own proposal where this feature is part of.

For other classes like filter or validation has been no progress made to do
such things.
I even don't know if that is wished.

Greetings
Thomas Weidner, I18N Team Leader, Zend Framework
http://www.thomasweidner.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Waigani" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:17 AM
Subject: [fw-i18n] download source translation files?


>
> Hi All,
>
> To use Zend_Translate, do I have to create my own translation file (.tmx
> etc)? Are there any plans on having default translation files as part of
> the
> framework? Or is there a directory of translation files out there that I
> can
> down load from?
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Jess
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/download-source-translation-files--tp16921067p16921067.html
> Sent from the Zend I18N/Locale mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: download source translation files?

waigani-2
Hi Thomas,

What I mean by "default translation file":

When I translate 'hello world' from English to German, I don't want to write the source translation file that maps the translation, I want to plug in a "default translation file" for for German.

I don't understand the following: 'There is a own proposal where this feature is part of'. Do you mean you have a proposal that has source translation files (or whatever you call them) incorporated? If so, how do I find your proposal?

thomasW wrote
Hy Jess,

what do you mean with "default translation file" ?
For every application the "default" set is different so it's impossible to
have a default translation available which is delivered with the framework.

What we will do as soon as the proposal is accepted, is to provide
translations for all exceptions the framework throws.
There is a own proposal where this feature is part of.

For other classes like filter or validation has been no progress made to do
such things.
I even don't know if that is wished.

Greetings
Thomas Weidner, I18N Team Leader, Zend Framework
http://www.thomasweidner.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Waigani" <jesse.meek@otago.ac.nz>
To: <fw-i18n@lists.zend.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:17 AM
Subject: [fw-i18n] download source translation files?


>
> Hi All,
>
> To use Zend_Translate, do I have to create my own translation file (.tmx
> etc)? Are there any plans on having default translation files as part of
> the
> framework? Or is there a directory of translation files out there that I
> can
> down load from?
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Jess
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/download-source-translation-files--tp16921067p16921067.html
> Sent from the Zend I18N/Locale mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: download source translation files?

Vincent T


On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Waigani <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Thomas,

What I mean by "default translation file":

When I translate 'hello world' from English to German, I don't want to write
the source translation file that maps the translation, I want to plug in a
"default translation file" for for German.

I don't understand the following: 'There is a own proposal where this
feature is part of'. Do you mean you have a proposal that has source
translation files (or whatever you call them) incorporated? If so, how do I
find your proposal?

 
I think what Thomas was trying to say was that every website has different strings. Thus, it is virtually impossible to create a "default" translation file that many websites will benefit of. Whatever website you are going to create probably has its own unique strings too.

The proposal Thomas was talking about was one that creates translations for the exceptions thrown by the Zend Framework (sounds like an excellent addition to me!).


--
Vincent
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Re: download source translation files?

Thomas Weidner
In reply to this post by waigani-2
Its on you to create a default translation file which fits your needs.

You can add multiple translation sources to any translation object.
If you have for example a module based layout your translations will also be
module based and you will probably use the same module and also the same
translation multiple times.

I dont see where here the problem is as Zend_Translate supports unlimited
number of source files to be used.

Greetings
Thomas Weidner, I18N Team Leader, Zend Framework
http://www.thomasweidner.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Waigani" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [fw-i18n] download source translation files?


>
> Hi Thomas,
>
> What I mean by "default translation file":
>
> When I translate 'hello world' from English to German, I don't want to
> write
> the source translation file that maps the translation, I want to plug in a
> "default translation file" for for German.
>
> I don't understand the following: 'There is a own proposal where this
> feature is part of'. Do you mean you have a proposal that has source
> translation files (or whatever you call them) incorporated? If so, how do
> I
> find your proposal?
>
>
> thomasW wrote:
>>
>> Hy Jess,
>>
>> what do you mean with "default translation file" ?
>> For every application the "default" set is different so it's impossible
>> to
>> have a default translation available which is delivered with the
>> framework.
>>
>> What we will do as soon as the proposal is accepted, is to provide
>> translations for all exceptions the framework throws.
>> There is a own proposal where this feature is part of.
>>
>> For other classes like filter or validation has been no progress made to
>> do
>> such things.
>> I even don't know if that is wished.
>>
>> Greetings
>> Thomas Weidner, I18N Team Leader, Zend Framework
>> http://www.thomasweidner.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Waigani" <[hidden email]>
>> To: <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:17 AM
>> Subject: [fw-i18n] download source translation files?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> To use Zend_Translate, do I have to create my own translation file (.tmx
>>> etc)? Are there any plans on having default translation files as part of
>>> the
>>> framework? Or is there a directory of translation files out there that I
>>> can
>>> down load from?
>>>
>>> Thanks for your time,
>>> Jess
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://www.nabble.com/download-source-translation-files--tp16921067p16921067.html
>>> Sent from the Zend I18N/Locale mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/download-source-translation-files--tp16921067p16928239.html
> Sent from the Zend I18N/Locale mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: download source translation files?

waigani-2
In reply to this post by Vincent T
Granted a default translation file will not compete with a hand written one. But there are many automatic translators out there - I'm thinking of google translate for example. They must be using some equivalent of a default translation mapping file. Doesn't it make sense to bring such functionality to the framework?

Vincent-20 wrote
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Waigani <jesse.meek@otago.ac.nz> wrote:

>
> Hi Thomas,
>
> What I mean by "default translation file":
>
> When I translate 'hello world' from English to German, I don't want to
> write
> the source translation file that maps the translation, I want to plug in a
> "default translation file" for for German.
>
> I don't understand the following: 'There is a own proposal where this
> feature is part of'. Do you mean you have a proposal that has source
> translation files (or whatever you call them) incorporated? If so, how do
> I
> find your proposal?
>
>
I think what Thomas was trying to say was that every website has different
strings. Thus, it is virtually impossible to create a "default" translation
file that many websites will benefit of. Whatever website you are going to
create probably has its own unique strings too.

The proposal Thomas was talking about was one that creates translations for
the exceptions thrown by the Zend Framework (sounds like an excellent
addition to me!).


--
Vincent
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Re: download source translation files?

Vincent T


On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Waigani <[hidden email]> wrote:

Granted a default translation file will not compete with a hand written one.
But there are many automatic translators out there - I'm thinking of google
translate for example. They must be using some equivalent of a default
translation mapping file. Doesn't it make sense to bring such functionality
to the framework?


Google Translate does not translate entire sentences from predefined sentences - it translates separate words from a dictionary and tries to form gramatically correct sentences. Shipping entire dictionaries would be quite large, quite slow (I'd think - not sure) and far from perfect. Let alone that it is a huge job to try and implement correct grammar correction.

It'd be nice to have, but not feasible I'm afraid...

--
Vincent
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Re: download source translation files?

waigani-2
I hear what your saying. But I find it surprising that there is not a standards based library of translation dictionaries (say in xml) that could plug into a variety of frameworks / projects.


Vincent-20 wrote
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Waigani <jesse.meek@otago.ac.nz> wrote:

>
> Granted a default translation file will not compete with a hand written
> one.
> But there are many automatic translators out there - I'm thinking of
> google
> translate for example. They must be using some equivalent of a default
> translation mapping file. Doesn't it make sense to bring such
> functionality
> to the framework?
>
>
Google Translate does not translate entire sentences from predefined
sentences - it translates separate words from a dictionary and tries to form
gramatically correct sentences. Shipping entire dictionaries would be quite
large, quite slow (I'd think - not sure) and far from perfect. Let alone
that it is a huge job to try and implement correct grammar correction.

It'd be nice to have, but not feasible I'm afraid...

--
Vincent
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Re: download source translation files?

Vincent T


On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Waigani <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hear what your saying. But I find it surprising that there is not a
standards based library of translation dictionaries (say in xml) that could
plug into a variety of frameworks / projects.


Well, there *is* http://www.freedict.org/, but I don't think it belongs in the Zend Framework.
--
Vincent
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Re: download source translation files?

waigani-2
How about Zend_Gdata_Translate() ?

Vincent-20 wrote
On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Waigani <jesse.meek@otago.ac.nz> wrote:

>
> I hear what your saying. But I find it surprising that there is not a
> standards based library of translation dictionaries (say in xml) that
> could
> plug into a variety of frameworks / projects.
>
>
Well, there *is* http://www.freedict.org/, but I don't think it belongs in
the Zend Framework.
--
Vincent
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Re: download source translation files?

Vincent T


On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:59 PM, Waigani <[hidden email]> wrote:

How about Zend_Gdata_Translate() ?



I'm not into this, but I think Zend_Gdata_* is based on the Google Data API's: http://code.google.com/apis/gdata/
Google Translate is not on there.

On the other hand, some website provide links to the Google-hosted translation of their website, that should not be too difficult.
--
Vincent