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Zend Framework Q&A website

Artur Bodera
Good morning!

Based on some feedback I've read on the level of transparency of ZF team, 
not adequate communication or fragmentation of helpful resources, I've 
started a dedicated ZF Q&A website.

I'm not a Zend employee and this website is based on StackExchange.
This means it's open, democratic and could be a go-to destination for all 
people seeking help with Zend Framework.



Because it's a currently a "proposal" project (not launched yet) in order for it
to take off we need a significant number of people to do the following:

  1. Click the link.
  2. Click follow (this equals = you like the idea :)
  3. Write a sample question for ZF1 or ZF2.
  4. Vote for questions you like (to see answers for).
  5. Let others know.


The idea is to centralize all ZF1 and ZF2 support. Currently there are ML,
forums, blogs, irc, StackExchange and other websites where you can 
find ZF answers. Because there are so many it's hard to get a specific 
answer when you're in trouble. If we launched a dedicated ZF Q&A 
website, end-users will have a common place to ask their questions 
and contributors one place to monitor and help out.

Cheers.

Arthur.

--
      __
     /.)\   <a href="tel:%2B48%20695%20600%20936" value="+48695600936" target="_blank">+48 695 600 936
     \(./   [hidden email]

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Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Clint Lenard
Nice. I will definitely be checking this out.

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Artur Bodera <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good morning!

Based on some feedback I've read on the level of transparency of ZF team,
not adequate communication or fragmentation of helpful resources, I've
started a dedicated ZF Q&A website.

I'm not a Zend employee and this website is based on StackExchange.
This means it's open, democratic and could be a go-to destination for all
people seeking help with Zend Framework.

   http://bit.ly/ZF_QA


Because it's a currently a "proposal" project (not launched yet) in order
for it
to take off we need a significant number of people to do the following:

 1. Click the link.
 2. Click follow (this equals = you like the idea :)
 3. Write a sample question for ZF1 or ZF2.
 4. Vote for questions you like (to see answers for).
 5. Let others know.


The idea is to centralize all ZF1 and ZF2 support. Currently there are ML,
forums, blogs, irc, StackExchange and other websites where you can
find ZF answers. Because there are so many it's hard to get a specific
answer when you're in trouble. If we launched a dedicated ZF Q&A
website, end-users will have a common place to ask their questions
and contributors one place to monitor and help out.

Cheers.

Arthur.

--
     __
    /.)\   <a href="tel:%2B48%20695%20600%20936" value="+48695600936">+48 695 600 936
    \(./   [hidden email]



--
Thanks,

Clint Lenard

www.ClintLenard.com
www.Affiliit.com

"Great minds discuss ideasaverage minds discuss eventssmall minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

"I've learned that mistakes can often be as good a teacher as success." - Jack Welch

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Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Tomáš Fejfar
As unhappy I am to say so, some of the points in the "Why was the proposal rejected" make sense. 

Only exception being some general questions like the ones I created as examples in the proposal - the ones that transcend from programming to other areas - like what is CLA, who are ZF core developers, how do I setup Apache to work with ZF, what are good ways to optimize server for ZF, is there any good [templating system, ecommerce module, payment gateway module] for ZF, ...

Other than that only thing we need is to promote SO as the single most useful resource to get ZF answers. And maybe also more activity from core members on SO. And maybe sponsor the tag to give it a little shine. There is a very valid point, that creating dedicated ZF stackexchange would lead to decline in number of questions/answers, because 

1) some of the people on SO are good programmers AND know ZF, but will not want to switch to different site and loose their reputation. 
2) many people will still ask question about ZF on SO and be accused of offtopic, as there is separate SE for it (how were they supposed to know?)

To sum up - only reason we SHOULD have our own SO would be if we have enough questions that CAN'T be posted on SO with ZF tag and would be marked as offtopic (as those noted above). Other than that there are not many reasons why start building whole new community where there is one already, keen to help. 

The best solution would IMO be that some people (core devs) could get magically a lot of reputation (or some other status - like "ZF" badge on profile picture) and posts with tag ZendFramework would have different theme, still staying on SO. 

But from how I see it there is not much chance of this proposal getting accepted. And I would stick to the advices from Supporting Developer Communities on Stack Overflow in this post http://discuss.area51.stackexchange.com/a/4581/54156

--Tomas Fejfar

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 4:52 PM, Clint Lenard <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nice. I will definitely be checking this out.


On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Artur Bodera <[hidden email]> wrote:
Good morning!

Based on some feedback I've read on the level of transparency of ZF team,
not adequate communication or fragmentation of helpful resources, I've
started a dedicated ZF Q&A website.

I'm not a Zend employee and this website is based on StackExchange.
This means it's open, democratic and could be a go-to destination for all
people seeking help with Zend Framework.

   http://bit.ly/ZF_QA


Because it's a currently a "proposal" project (not launched yet) in order
for it
to take off we need a significant number of people to do the following:

 1. Click the link.
 2. Click follow (this equals = you like the idea :)
 3. Write a sample question for ZF1 or ZF2.
 4. Vote for questions you like (to see answers for).
 5. Let others know.


The idea is to centralize all ZF1 and ZF2 support. Currently there are ML,
forums, blogs, irc, StackExchange and other websites where you can
find ZF answers. Because there are so many it's hard to get a specific
answer when you're in trouble. If we launched a dedicated ZF Q&A
website, end-users will have a common place to ask their questions
and contributors one place to monitor and help out.

Cheers.

Arthur.

--
     __
    /.)\   <a href="tel:%2B48%20695%20600%20936" value="+48695600936" target="_blank">+48 695 600 936
    \(./   [hidden email]



--
Thanks,

Clint Lenard

www.ClintLenard.com
www.Affiliit.com

"Great minds discuss ideasaverage minds discuss eventssmall minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

"I've learned that mistakes can often be as good a teacher as success." - Jack Welch


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Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Artur Bodera
2012/3/12 Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]>
The best solution would IMO be that some people (core devs) could get magically a lot of reputation

Not possible.

(or some other status - like "ZF" badge on profile picture) and posts with tag ZendFramework would have different theme, still staying on SO. 
But from how I see it there is not much chance of this proposal getting accepted. And I would stick to the advices from Supporting Developer Communities on Stack Overflow in this post http://discuss.area51.stackexchange.com/a/4581/54156

You're missing the point Tomas.

Citing that point:

Start with a page on your site, listing where developers should go for various support-related tasks. Stack Overflow should only be ONE of the option available.  

We do not need _another_ support web page. 
Currently, contributors and ZF core-team are spread thin across:

 1. StackOverflow and other Q&A sites
 2. Personal blogs + discussions
 3. Official Zend forums
 4. Plethora of unofficial forums
 5. Official mailing lists
 6. Official wiki discussions
 7. IRC on a couple of channels
 8. Ye'olde write an email to contributor

Not only it affects the quality of support you might get from a knowledgeable person, but also increases the confusion of end-user when he/she wants to ask a question. 


Zend Framework 2 additionally brings in:
  a) A lot more questions coming in, because ZF2 is a new beast.
  b) New questions are not yet answered, you won't find many of them on Google.
  c) Tens of new/refactored Components
  d) Service\* detached from the core
  e) Potentially tens of third-party modules, which (despite having nothing directly to do with zf2 core) will be associated with zf2.

This translates to the number of incoming questions and number of specialty tags we'll need to bring order to the chaos.


The motivation for a dedicated Q&A site is to:
 1) Have 1 single site where contributors (+module authors) meet with end-users.
 2) Have 1 single address where we direct people to ask their questions.
 3) Increase the average quality of answers with a voting mechanism, syntax coloring, discussions (comments) and other tools.
 4) In time, build a sizable knowledge base containing high-quality answers for zf1 and zf2.


1) some of the people on SO are good programmers AND know ZF, but will not want to switch to different site and loose their reputation. 

Reputation is not an objective here. I can understand that reputation hunting can be a goal of itself for some people, but I believe that me and many other contributors will want to use the new site to help out people, regardless if even the reputation system exists or not. 

If we go with SE, I will ask their staff if it's possible to migrate some of the reputation from SO when creating an account at new site.

 
2) many people will still ask question about ZF on SO and be accused of offtopic, as there is separate SE for it (how were they supposed to know?)

That depends on how we define it and how we manage it. It's exactly the same with IRC, forums, ML and other places. The line is drawn by the people answering questions. You're right, that questions relating to ZF will sometimes intersect with "general-php", apache and other areas. In my opinion that's nothing bad and such questions would get my attention. In case nature of a question is too off, SE gives moderators and contributors a tool to easily migrate the question back to StackOverflow (and back).

Furthermore, I'll be asking moderators on StackExchange to migrate existing [zend-framework] tagged questions to the new site.


-- 
      __
     /.)\   +48 695 600 936
     \(./   [hidden email]


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Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Tomáš Fejfar
Just to clarify the reputation problem. The thing with reputation is that it directly affect your abbilities on SE. You need it to moderate, suggest new tags, vote for closing, etc. I'm in TOP 20 users for ZF tag (http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) and it took a lot of work to get the required reputation that allow tag suggestions and voting. 

OT: Example of question that would fit to ZF SE site would be http://stackoverflow.com/questions/952056/where-do-i-start-with-zend-framework (closed as not constructive). 

2012/3/13 Artur Bodera <[hidden email]>
2012/3/12 Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]>
The best solution would IMO be that some people (core devs) could get magically a lot of reputation

Not possible.

(or some other status - like "ZF" badge on profile picture) and posts with tag ZendFramework would have different theme, still staying on SO. 
But from how I see it there is not much chance of this proposal getting accepted. And I would stick to the advices from Supporting Developer Communities on Stack Overflow in this post http://discuss.area51.stackexchange.com/a/4581/54156

You're missing the point Tomas.

Citing that point:

Start with a page on your site, listing where developers should go for various support-related tasks. Stack Overflow should only be ONE of the option available.  

We do not need _another_ support web page. 
Currently, contributors and ZF core-team are spread thin across:

 1. StackOverflow and other Q&A sites
 2. Personal blogs + discussions
 3. Official Zend forums
 4. Plethora of unofficial forums
 5. Official mailing lists
 6. Official wiki discussions
 7. IRC on a couple of channels
 8. Ye'olde write an email to contributor

Not only it affects the quality of support you might get from a knowledgeable person, but also increases the confusion of end-user when he/she wants to ask a question. 


Zend Framework 2 additionally brings in:
  a) A lot more questions coming in, because ZF2 is a new beast.
  b) New questions are not yet answered, you won't find many of them on Google.
  c) Tens of new/refactored Components
  d) Service\* detached from the core
  e) Potentially tens of third-party modules, which (despite having nothing directly to do with zf2 core) will be associated with zf2.

This translates to the number of incoming questions and number of specialty tags we'll need to bring order to the chaos.


The motivation for a dedicated Q&A site is to:
 1) Have 1 single site where contributors (+module authors) meet with end-users.
 2) Have 1 single address where we direct people to ask their questions.
 3) Increase the average quality of answers with a voting mechanism, syntax coloring, discussions (comments) and other tools.
 4) In time, build a sizable knowledge base containing high-quality answers for zf1 and zf2.


1) some of the people on SO are good programmers AND know ZF, but will not want to switch to different site and loose their reputation. 

Reputation is not an objective here. I can understand that reputation hunting can be a goal of itself for some people, but I believe that me and many other contributors will want to use the new site to help out people, regardless if even the reputation system exists or not. 

If we go with SE, I will ask their staff if it's possible to migrate some of the reputation from SO when creating an account at new site.

 
2) many people will still ask question about ZF on SO and be accused of offtopic, as there is separate SE for it (how were they supposed to know?)

That depends on how we define it and how we manage it. It's exactly the same with IRC, forums, ML and other places. The line is drawn by the people answering questions. You're right, that questions relating to ZF will sometimes intersect with "general-php", apache and other areas. In my opinion that's nothing bad and such questions would get my attention. In case nature of a question is too off, SE gives moderators and contributors a tool to easily migrate the question back to StackOverflow (and back).

Furthermore, I'll be asking moderators on StackExchange to migrate existing [zend-framework] tagged questions to the new site.


-- 
      __
     /.)\   <a href="tel:%2B48%20695%20600%20936" value="+48695600936" target="_blank">+48 695 600 936
     \(./   [hidden email]



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Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

robertbasic
This http://i.imgur.com/ijyf5.png sums up pretty well why I gave up on
SO. The mailing list/IRC at least filters out, to some extent, that
kind of people.

--
~Robert Basic;
http://robertbasic.com/
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Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Artur Bodera
In reply to this post by Tomáš Fejfar
2012/3/13 Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]>
Just to clarify the reputation problem. The thing with reputation is that it directly affect your abbilities on SE. You need it to moderate, suggest new tags, vote for closing, etc. I'm in TOP 20 users for ZF tag (http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) and it took a lot of work to get the required reputation that allow tag suggestions and voting. 

You're right, however in this case:

  1) If ZF dedicated site was set up, a group of moderators will be assigned with necessary permissions (probably "framework team" and CR team folks)

  2) Other users can quickly gain rep by asking and answering questions.



To _use_ the site you don't need 5000 reputation - just create free account and answer or ask your questions. After just a few answered (and upvoted) answers you get more and more permissions, but those are _not_ necessary for the whole site to fulfill its mission = serve end-users.

The upside to a separate rep. system is that we'll keep score based on ZF-based knowledge, not "general programming", "shuffling arrays in pascal" or "killing a process in DB2" knowledge. A person with high score on ZF Q&A site = someone who's knowledgeable in the framework and helpful to others in this regard. 


I'm sure Tomas, with your experience, you'll rank up in no time :)


This http://i.imgur.com/ijyf5.png sums up pretty well why I gave up on
SO. The mailing list/IRC at least filters out, to some extent, that
kind of people. 

Why so negative ? :-) 

That's just one type of end-user we'll encounter. We can always delete/moderate those questions and ban trolls, but those are also people. ML and IRC doesn't filter anyone automatically, it's always by someone's opinion on being OT or annoying or something. Novices also deserve support - even if in the form of removing their comments and sending them an URL of "ZF Quickstart".



-- 
      __
     /.)\   +48 695 600 936
     \(./   [hidden email]

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Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Anthony Shireman
Hope this reply all works correctly, sorry if anyone gets duplicates.

Currently the SE proposal has 66 followers and 28 example questions with 91 votes. To proceed to the next step there needs to be 36 questions and each question needs 10 votes. If I understand the process correctly we're 25% of the way to the next step. I just want to encourage everyone to post a question, or vote on the current questions to get them above 10 votes. You only get 5 votes on the proposal, so we need another 50+ people to help move the proposal forward. Just wanted to hopefully motivate anyone who's considering moving the proposal along to do so.


Tony

2012/3/13 Artur Bodera <[hidden email]>
2012/3/13 Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]>
Just to clarify the reputation problem. The thing with reputation is that it directly affect your abbilities on SE. You need it to moderate, suggest new tags, vote for closing, etc. I'm in TOP 20 users for ZF tag (http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) and it took a lot of work to get the required reputation that allow tag suggestions and voting. 

You're right, however in this case:

  1) If ZF dedicated site was set up, a group of moderators will be assigned with necessary permissions (probably "framework team" and CR team folks)

  2) Other users can quickly gain rep by asking and answering questions.



To _use_ the site you don't need 5000 reputation - just create free account and answer or ask your questions. After just a few answered (and upvoted) answers you get more and more permissions, but those are _not_ necessary for the whole site to fulfill its mission = serve end-users.

The upside to a separate rep. system is that we'll keep score based on ZF-based knowledge, not "general programming", "shuffling arrays in pascal" or "killing a process in DB2" knowledge. A person with high score on ZF Q&A site = someone who's knowledgeable in the framework and helpful to others in this regard. 


I'm sure Tomas, with your experience, you'll rank up in no time :)


This http://i.imgur.com/ijyf5.png sums up pretty well why I gave up on
SO. The mailing list/IRC at least filters out, to some extent, that
kind of people. 

Why so negative ? :-) 

That's just one type of end-user we'll encounter. We can always delete/moderate those questions and ban trolls, but those are also people. ML and IRC doesn't filter anyone automatically, it's always by someone's opinion on being OT or annoying or something. Novices also deserve support - even if in the form of removing their comments and sending them an URL of "ZF Quickstart".



-- 
      __
     /.)\   <a href="tel:%2B48%20695%20600%20936" value="+48695600936" target="_blank">+48 695 600 936
     \(./   [hidden email]


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Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Tomáš Fejfar
From how I understood it, we still need to convince the SE staff that ZF2 deserves one SE web for itself. 

2012/3/13 Anthony Shireman <[hidden email]>
Hope this reply all works correctly, sorry if anyone gets duplicates.

Currently the SE proposal has 66 followers and 28 example questions with 91 votes. To proceed to the next step there needs to be 36 questions and each question needs 10 votes. If I understand the process correctly we're 25% of the way to the next step. I just want to encourage everyone to post a question, or vote on the current questions to get them above 10 votes. You only get 5 votes on the proposal, so we need another 50+ people to help move the proposal forward. Just wanted to hopefully motivate anyone who's considering moving the proposal along to do so.


Tony

2012/3/13 Artur Bodera <[hidden email]>
2012/3/13 Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]>
Just to clarify the reputation problem. The thing with reputation is that it directly affect your abbilities on SE. You need it to moderate, suggest new tags, vote for closing, etc. I'm in TOP 20 users for ZF tag (http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) and it took a lot of work to get the required reputation that allow tag suggestions and voting. 

You're right, however in this case:

  1) If ZF dedicated site was set up, a group of moderators will be assigned with necessary permissions (probably "framework team" and CR team folks)

  2) Other users can quickly gain rep by asking and answering questions.



To _use_ the site you don't need 5000 reputation - just create free account and answer or ask your questions. After just a few answered (and upvoted) answers you get more and more permissions, but those are _not_ necessary for the whole site to fulfill its mission = serve end-users.

The upside to a separate rep. system is that we'll keep score based on ZF-based knowledge, not "general programming", "shuffling arrays in pascal" or "killing a process in DB2" knowledge. A person with high score on ZF Q&A site = someone who's knowledgeable in the framework and helpful to others in this regard. 


I'm sure Tomas, with your experience, you'll rank up in no time :)


This http://i.imgur.com/ijyf5.png sums up pretty well why I gave up on
SO. The mailing list/IRC at least filters out, to some extent, that
kind of people. 

Why so negative ? :-) 

That's just one type of end-user we'll encounter. We can always delete/moderate those questions and ban trolls, but those are also people. ML and IRC doesn't filter anyone automatically, it's always by someone's opinion on being OT or annoying or something. Novices also deserve support - even if in the form of removing their comments and sending them an URL of "ZF Quickstart".



-- 
      __
     /.)\   <a href="tel:%2B48%20695%20600%20936" value="+48695600936" target="_blank">+48 695 600 936
     \(./   [hidden email]



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Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

weierophinney
Administrator
-- Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Tuesday, 13 March 2012, 08:37 PM +0100):
> From how I understood it, we still need to convince the SE staff that ZF2
> deserves one SE web for itself.

The comments on our proposal do not seem to necessarily reflect the
staff. Even the link that the commenter made indicates that there's (a)
contention about whether it's a problem or not, and (b) confusion by
some as to what the projects proposed actually are.

I think having a strong proposal that quickly meets the criteria
specified for new definitions will likely be seen as a sign that we have
a cohesive community interested in consolidating support in a single
channel.

> 2012/3/13 Anthony Shireman <[hidden email]>
>
>     Hope this reply all works correctly, sorry if anyone gets duplicates.
>
>     Currently the SE proposal has 66 followers and 28 example questions with 91
>     votes. To proceed to the next step there needs to be 36 questions and each
>     question needs 10 votes. If I understand the process correctly we're 25% of
>     the way to the next step. I just want to encourage everyone to post a
>     question, or vote on the current questions to get them above 10 votes. You
>     only get 5 votes on the proposal, so we need another 50+ people to help
>     move the proposal forward. Just wanted to hopefully motivate anyone who's
>     considering moving the proposal along to do so.
>
>
>     Tony
>
>     2012/3/13 Artur Bodera <[hidden email]>
>
>         2012/3/13 Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]>
>
>             Just to clarify the reputation problem. The thing with reputation
>             is that it directly affect your abbilities on SE. You need it to
>             moderate, suggest new tags, vote for closing, etc. I'm in TOP 20
>             users for ZF tag (http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/
>             topusers) and it took a lot of work to get the required reputation
>             that allow tag suggestions and voting.
>
>
>         You're right, however in this case:
>
>           1) If ZF dedicated site was set up, a group of moderators will be
>         assigned with necessary permissions (probably "framework team" and CR
>         team folks)
>
>           2) Other users can quickly gain rep by asking and answering
>         questions.
>
>
>
>         To _use_ the site you don't need 5000 reputation - just create free
>         account and answer or ask your questions. After just a few answered
>         (and upvoted) answers you get more and more permissions, but those are
>         _not_ necessary for the whole site to fulfill its mission = serve
>         end-users.
>
>         The upside to a separate rep. system is that we'll keep score based on
>         ZF-based knowledge, not "general programming", "shuffling arrays in
>         pascal" or "killing a process in DB2" knowledge. A person with high
>         score on ZF Q&A site = someone who's knowledgeable in the framework and
>         helpful to others in this regard.
>
>
>         I'm sure Tomas, with your experience, you'll rank up in no time :)
>
>
>
>             This http://i.imgur.com/ijyf5.png sums up pretty well why I gave up
>             on
>             SO. The mailing list/IRC at least filters out, to some extent, that
>             kind of people.
>
>
>         Why so negative ? :-)
>
>         That's just one type of end-user we'll encounter. We can always delete/
>         moderate those questions and ban trolls, but those are also people. ML
>         and IRC doesn't filter anyone automatically, it's always by someone's
>         opinion on being OT or annoying or something. Novices also deserve
>         support - even if in the form of removing their comments and sending
>         them an URL of "ZF Quickstart".
>
>
>        
>         --
>               __
>              /.)\   +48 695 600 936
>              \(./   [hidden email]
>    
>
>
>

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: [fw-general] Re: [zf-contributors] Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

omerida
If Drupal can have an SE site, I don't see why Zend Framework wouldn't.

http://drupal.stackexchange.com/
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Re: [fw-general] Re: [zf-contributors] Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Tomáš Fejfar
Because you can ask a ton of questions that are about drupal and will be marked as offtopic on StackOverflow. Like "How do I create a subpage for a page in Drupal" or "What are good texts for html_description in Drupal", etc. 

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 8:56 PM, Oscar <[hidden email]> wrote:
If Drupal can have an SE site, I don't see why Zend Framework wouldn't.

http://drupal.stackexchange.com/

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Re: [fw-general] Re: [zf-contributors] Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Jurian Sluiman

Op 13 mrt. 2012 21:57 schreef "Tomáš Fejfar" <[hidden email]> het volgende:
>
> Because you can ask a ton of questions that are about drupal and will be marked as offtopic on StackOverflow. Like "How do I create a subpage for a page in Drupal" or "What are good texts for html_description in Drupal", etc.

Please bear in mind you'll get the same type of  question with the to-be-created module ecosystem for zf2. I see this q&a for all kind of  questions, not all of them will be programming (and thus for SO) related.
--
Jurian Sluiman

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Re: Zend Framework Q&A website

Ralf Eggert
In reply to this post by Artur Bodera
Hi,

I have followed the discussion for the last two days now. I read about
the problems with StackOverflow / StackExchange about creating a ZF Q&A
site. I learned something about off- and ontopics at SO / SE.

Now I am asking myself if a Q&A site for the ZF at SE is the only path
to follow. Has any one thought about creating our own ZF Q&A site based
on the ZF2 yet?

I know there a couple of issues to think about.

a) Who will do the programming work?
b) Who will do the administrational work once the site is launched?
c) Who will host the stuff?
d) How can we direct all the support questions to this one site?

Maybe I undervalue the work needed to set up such a site. And maybe this
is due to the fact that I personally do not use SO that much. I am
rather looking for support in the mailing list, the internet or the
German ZF forum. The only question I asked on SO so far was completely
ignored by the community.

If I had to summarize the features needed I would present this list:

1) Users need to register, login, logout, and show their profile
2) Users need to ask, edit, delete and tag their questions
3) Users need to answer a question
4) Users need to vote on questions and answers
5) Users need to list questions by date, votes, activity or if they are
   unanswered
6) Admins need to manage users, questions, answers and votes
7) NTH: reputation feature with points and badges and getting more
   rights with a growing reputation

The biggest issue might be how to implement the user registration stuff
within the current ZF eco system. Should this be separated or combined
with the wiki registration for example?

If the community is really interested in having such a ZF2 based Q&A
site for ZF questions I would step forward and offer my help and start
doing the programming stuff.

Is this a good idea or a bad one? Or do you rather want to see how the
SE team decides about the proposal for the ZF Q&A site on SE?

Best regards,

Ralf
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Re: Zend Framework Q&A website

Jurian Sluiman
2012/3/13 Ralf Eggert <[hidden email]>
If the community is really interested in having such a ZF2 based Q&A
site for ZF questions I would step forward and offer my help and start
doing the programming stuff.

Is this a good idea or a bad one? Or do you rather want to see how the
SE team decides about the proposal for the ZF Q&A site on SE?

Best regards,

Ralf

Some days ago I suggested something similar on IRC. With a site like modules.zendframework.com we can provide a platform for a zf2 environment. People can ask questions, help others, browse modules and discuss them, post tutorials and code examples etc. While this idea sounds (at least to me) great, it still does involve quite some work. Offloading a part of this work to a Stack Exchange site for Q&A is of course a smart move to keep scarce development time for other (zf2 related) projects.
--
Jurian Sluiman
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Re: Zend Framework Q&A website

weierophinney
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ralf Eggert
-- Ralf Eggert <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Tuesday, 13 March 2012, 11:06 PM +0100):
> I have followed the discussion for the last two days now. I read about
> the problems with StackOverflow / StackExchange about creating a ZF Q&A
> site. I learned something about off- and ontopics at SO / SE.
>
> Now I am asking myself if a Q&A site for the ZF at SE is the only path
> to follow. Has any one thought about creating our own ZF Q&A site based
> on the ZF2 yet?

Yes, it's been considered. However, a big part of looking at SE is
because it's already where users are migrating to ask questions.

I looked at post stats for the official ZF mailing lists versus number
of questions tagged against ZF on SE a few months back. What I saw was
that SE was getting several _TIMES_ the number of questions as the ZF
mailing lists, and volume was increasing exponentially, while the MLs
are seeing less traffic (with the exception of the contributors list,
which we would be continuing to use). As such, I'd argue that the
community has already voted with its feet.

The questions you raise are not insignificant, either. I'd much rather
we direct our energies as a community towards getting a solid, stable
ZF2 out the door at this point than building this kind of
infrastructure. Additionally, there's the question of maintaining such
an application, which is an ongoing commitment -- and, again, I'd rather
we put our efforts as a community into the framework.

However, if SE denies our request, this may be our best option moving
forward -- but let's give the SE petition a chance, first.

> I know there a couple of issues to think about.
>
> a) Who will do the programming work?
> b) Who will do the administrational work once the site is launched?
> c) Who will host the stuff?
> d) How can we direct all the support questions to this one site?
>
> Maybe I undervalue the work needed to set up such a site. And maybe this
> is due to the fact that I personally do not use SO that much. I am
> rather looking for support in the mailing list, the internet or the
> German ZF forum. The only question I asked on SO so far was completely
> ignored by the community.
>
> If I had to summarize the features needed I would present this list:
>
> 1) Users need to register, login, logout, and show their profile
> 2) Users need to ask, edit, delete and tag their questions
> 3) Users need to answer a question
> 4) Users need to vote on questions and answers
> 5) Users need to list questions by date, votes, activity or if they are
>    unanswered
> 6) Admins need to manage users, questions, answers and votes
> 7) NTH: reputation feature with points and badges and getting more
>    rights with a growing reputation
>
> The biggest issue might be how to implement the user registration stuff
> within the current ZF eco system. Should this be separated or combined
> with the wiki registration for example?
>
> If the community is really interested in having such a ZF2 based Q&A
> site for ZF questions I would step forward and offer my help and start
> doing the programming stuff.
>
> Is this a good idea or a bad one? Or do you rather want to see how the
> SE team decides about the proposal for the ZF Q&A site on SE?

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Andreas Möller
In reply to this post by Artur Bodera

This http://i.imgur.com/ijyf5.png sums up pretty well why I gave up on
SO. The mailing list/IRC at least filters out, to some extent, that
kind of people. 

Why so negative ? :-) 

I fully understand this: either you want to help OR you want to gain reputation. 

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/20407/will-high-reputation-in-stack-overflow-help-to-get-a-good-job
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Re: Zend Framework Q&A website

Ralf Eggert
In reply to this post by weierophinney
Hi Matthew,
Hi Jurian,

> However, if SE denies our request, this may be our best option moving
> forward -- but let's give the SE petition a chance, first.

No problem. We will wait for the SE petition and if they deny it, give
me a note.

Thanks and best regards,

Ralf
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Re: [fw-general] Re: [zf-contributors] Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework Q&A website

Tomáš Fejfar
In reply to this post by Jurian Sluiman
Yes, but look at the question selection - 97% of them are stackexchange on-topic. The only two obvious offtopic are those I posted :)) It seems like a good idea to add such questions to the list to show that many of ZF related questions are SE offtopic. 

2012/3/13 Jurian Sluiman <[hidden email]>

Op 13 mrt. 2012 21:57 schreef "Tomáš Fejfar" <[hidden email]> het volgende:


>
> Because you can ask a ton of questions that are about drupal and will be marked as offtopic on StackOverflow. Like "How do I create a subpage for a page in Drupal" or "What are good texts for html_description in Drupal", etc.

Please bear in mind you'll get the same type of  question with the to-be-created module ecosystem for zf2. I see this q&a for all kind of  questions, not all of them will be programming (and thus for SO) related.
--
Jurian Sluiman


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Re: Zend Framework Q&A website

Tomáš Fejfar
In reply to this post by Ralf Eggert
It's not that easy to create such website. //cc: quora

If we just copy the model, it wouldn't offer such extensive tools and UX as SE does. If anyone is up to creating this by himself, OK. But I'm against making this a community effort - because there are more important things to do - like creating modules, reviewing betas, etc. After all the zend-framework tag on SO worked fine for few years and it can stay so. 

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Ralf Eggert <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I have followed the discussion for the last two days now. I read about
the problems with StackOverflow / StackExchange about creating a ZF Q&A
site. I learned something about off- and ontopics at SO / SE.

Now I am asking myself if a Q&A site for the ZF at SE is the only path
to follow. Has any one thought about creating our own ZF Q&A site based
on the ZF2 yet?

I know there a couple of issues to think about.

a) Who will do the programming work?
b) Who will do the administrational work once the site is launched?
c) Who will host the stuff?
d) How can we direct all the support questions to this one site?

Maybe I undervalue the work needed to set up such a site. And maybe this
is due to the fact that I personally do not use SO that much. I am
rather looking for support in the mailing list, the internet or the
German ZF forum. The only question I asked on SO so far was completely
ignored by the community.

If I had to summarize the features needed I would present this list:

1) Users need to register, login, logout, and show their profile
2) Users need to ask, edit, delete and tag their questions
3) Users need to answer a question
4) Users need to vote on questions and answers
5) Users need to list questions by date, votes, activity or if they are
  unanswered
6) Admins need to manage users, questions, answers and votes
7) NTH: reputation feature with points and badges and getting more
  rights with a growing reputation

The biggest issue might be how to implement the user registration stuff
within the current ZF eco system. Should this be separated or combined
with the wiki registration for example?

If the community is really interested in having such a ZF2 based Q&A
site for ZF questions I would step forward and offer my help and start
doing the programming stuff.

Is this a good idea or a bad one? Or do you rather want to see how the
SE team decides about the proposal for the ZF Q&A site on SE?

Best regards,

Ralf

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