Zend Framework 2.0

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Zend Framework 2.0

takeshin
Are there any known plans for ZF 2.0?
It will be an 'regular' release? Are planned any 'breaktrough' features (e.g. application backend like in Symfony, ORM)?

I'm sure, it will be backwards compatilble,
but what can we expect?

I've found only this roadmap for Zend_Controller:
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Zend_Controller+2.0
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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

padraicb
According to Matthew planning is underway. Backwards compatibility will be retained, I'm sure, for many components but many others will break compatibility since this is a major revision giving everyone the opportunity to replace/fix components, APIs, and other behaviour.
 
Pádraic Brady

http://blog.astrumfutura.com
http://www.survivethedeepend.com
OpenID Europe Foundation Irish Representative



From: admirau <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 2:48:03 PM
Subject: [fw-general] Zend Framework 2.0


Are there any known plans for ZF 2.0?
It will be an 'regular' release? Are planned any 'breaktrough' features
(e.g. application backend like in Symfony, ORM)?

I'm sure, it will be backwards compatilble,
but what can we expect?

I've found only this roadmap for Zend_Controller:
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Zend_Controller+2.0
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Zend-Framework-2.0-tp24887311p24887311.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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RE: Zend Framework 2.0

Vincent de Lau

I think it is saver to assume that 2.0 will break existing stuff. There are some major changes planned, like renaming classes. I wouldn’t be surprised if ZF 2.0 is PHP 5.3 only (namespaces).

 

There used to be a roadmap on the website (page still exists but doesn’t seem to be linked to). Maybe it would be a good idea to reinstate this page and add (preliminary) information about 2.0?

 

Vincent de Lau

 [hidden email]

 

 

From: Pádraic Brady [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:53 PM
To: admirau
Cc: Zend Framework General
Subject: Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework 2.0

 

According to Matthew planning is underway. Backwards compatibility will be retained, I'm sure, for many components but many others will break compatibility since this is a major revision giving everyone the opportunity to replace/fix components, APIs, and other behaviour.

 

Pádraic Brady

http://blog.astrumfutura.com
http://www.survivethedeepend.com
OpenID Europe Foundation Irish Representative

 

 


From: admirau <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 2:48:03 PM
Subject: [fw-general] Zend Framework 2.0


Are there any known plans for ZF 2.0?
It will be an 'regular' release? Are planned any 'breaktrough' features
(e.g. application backend like in Symfony, ORM)?

I'm sure, it will be backwards compatilble,
but what can we expect?

I've found only this roadmap for Zend_Controller:
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Zend_Controller+2.0
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Zend-Framework-2.0-tp24887311p24887311.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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RE: Zend Framework 2.0

takeshin
There's a lot of questions…
Will it be 5.3 only? Now PHP 5.3 is still unstable, there is no hostings for 5.3,
so… when?

I do not want to throw away my libraries which I will write till 2.0 since now,
so it would be nice to know what is planned, e.g. previously mentioned stripping require_once's

--
regards
takeshin
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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

Victor Farazdagi-2
Well,
I must agree. how much BC is valued is to be decided by component
maintainers, but we would certainly benefit from knowing what changes
are expected to the client code (at least roughly).


admirau wrote:

> There's a lot of questions…
> Will it be 5.3 only? Now PHP 5.3 is still unstable, there is no hostings for
> 5.3,
> so… when?
>
> I do not want to throw away my libraries which I will write till 2.0 since
> now,
> so it would be nice to know what is planned, e.g. previously mentioned
> stripping require_once's
>
>  


--
Victor Farazdagi

UMapper / CrabDish LLC
7350 E. Progress Place, Suite 212
Greenwood Village, CO 80111
USA

http://www.umapper.com
http://www.afcomponents.com

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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

mbneto
In reply to this post by Vincent de Lau
Hi Vincent,

I think it is too speculative to talk about a 5.3 only.   A few days ago Mathew mentioned that no major distro (at least the 'enterprise') are using the 5.3 version so I think that this will be a bad move, unless they do not plan to release the new version (ZF 2.0) for a year or so.

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Vincent de Lau <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think it is saver to assume that 2.0 will break existing stuff. There are some major changes planned, like renaming classes. I wouldn’t be surprised if ZF 2.0 is PHP 5.3 only (namespaces).

 

There used to be a roadmap on the website (page still exists but doesn’t seem to be linked to). Maybe it would be a good idea to reinstate this page and add (preliminary) information about 2.0?

 

Vincent de Lau

 [hidden email]

 

 

From: Pádraic Brady [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:53 PM
To: admirau
Cc: Zend Framework General
Subject: Re: [fw-general] Zend Framework 2.0

 

According to Matthew planning is underway. Backwards compatibility will be retained, I'm sure, for many components but many others will break compatibility since this is a major revision giving everyone the opportunity to replace/fix components, APIs, and other behaviour.

 

Pádraic Brady

http://blog.astrumfutura.com
http://www.survivethedeepend.com
OpenID Europe Foundation Irish Representative

 

 


From: admirau <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 2:48:03 PM
Subject: [fw-general] Zend Framework 2.0


Are there any known plans for ZF 2.0?
It will be an 'regular' release? Are planned any 'breaktrough' features
(e.g. application backend like in Symfony, ORM)?

I'm sure, it will be backwards compatilble,
but what can we expect?

I've found only this roadmap for Zend_Controller:
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Zend_Controller+2.0
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Zend-Framework-2.0-tp24887311p24887311.html
Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

Ralph Schindler-2
In reply to this post by padraicb
I for one can say that the road to 2.0 will not be a short road.  Lots
of considerations will go into 2.0, especially since we've learned SO
MUCH from the entirety of the 1.0 branch.

There are plenty of components that simply put, need a rewrite.  Reasons
for rewrite could range far and wide: some components have bad behavior,
while other components have an API that is not necessarily the same as
the API conventions we've adopted as best practices over the most recent
years.

So, while planning is underway, just keep in mind that 1.0 branch is
still the bread winner.  The majority of efforts both on the team as
well as the community should be spent making 1.0 a better and more solid
product each and every day.

That said, if you got free time, fill in the 2.0 pages under ZFDEV if
you can think of something you'd like to see implemented in 2.0 since a
bc break is underway-- its always good to take down our brainstorming
notes, our "what ifs" when they come to us.

-ralph

Pádraic Brady wrote:

> According to Matthew planning is underway. Backwards compatibility will
> be retained, I'm sure, for many components but many others will break
> compatibility since this is a major revision giving everyone the
> opportunity to replace/fix components, APIs, and other behaviour.
>  
> Pádraic Brady
>
> http://blog.astrumfutura.com
> http://www.survivethedeepend.com
> OpenID Europe Foundation Irish Representative <http://www.openideurope.eu/>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* admirau <[hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 9, 2009 2:48:03 PM
> *Subject:* [fw-general] Zend Framework 2.0
>
>
> Are there any known plans for ZF 2.0?
> It will be an 'regular' release? Are planned any 'breaktrough' features
> (e.g. application backend like in Symfony, ORM)?
>
> I'm sure, it will be backwards compatilble,
> but what can we expect?
>
> I've found only this roadmap for Zend_Controller:
> http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Zend_Controller+2.0
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://www.nabble.com/Zend-Framework-2.0-tp24887311p24887311.html
> Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com
> <http://Nabble.com>.
>
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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

Mario Guenterberg-4
In reply to this post by mbneto
On So, Aug 09, 2009 at 04:52:55 -0400, mbneto wrote:

> Hi Vincent,
>
> I think it is too speculative to talk about a 5.3 only.   A few days ago
> Mathew mentioned that no major distro (at least the 'enterprise') are using
> the 5.3 version so I think that this will be a bad move, unless they do not
> plan to release the new version (ZF 2.0) for a year or so.
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Vincent de Lau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >  I think it is saver to assume that 2.0 *will* break existing stuff. There
> > are some major changes planned, like renaming classes. I wouldn’t be
> > surprised if ZF 2.0 is PHP 5.3 only (namespaces).
> >
> >
> >
> > There used to be a roadmap on the website (page still exists but doesn’t
> > seem to be linked to). Maybe it would be a good idea to reinstate this page
> > and add (preliminary) information about 2.0?

I mean that Matthew has written about the 2.0 release some weeks
ago. The relase plan is scheduled for mid 2010, I remember.

And if so, than it make sense to support PHP 5.3 only.
My 2 cents.

Greetings
Mario

--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS/CM d- s++: a+ C++++>$ UBL*++++$ P++ L+++ E--- W+++ N+ o-- K- w O- M-
V-- PS++ PE++ Y PGP+++ t--- 5 X++++ R++ tv- b+++ DI D++++  G++ e* h----
r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

mgkimsal
While distro/php versions probably will always be a factor to some degree, putting too much weight on that as a deciding factor will lead to stagnation.  RHEL and CentOS, arguably the most 'enterprise' of Linux distros, still only officially support PHP 5.1.6, IIRC.  Yes, you can upgrade from other repos, but I think you lose whatever 'enterprise support' you might get (probably not as much of a concern for the CentOS users).


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Mario Guenterberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
On So, Aug 09, 2009 at 04:52:55 -0400, mbneto wrote:
> Hi Vincent,
>
> I think it is too speculative to talk about a 5.3 only.   A few days ago
> Mathew mentioned that no major distro (at least the 'enterprise') are using
> the 5.3 version so I think that this will be a bad move, unless they do not
> plan to release the new version (ZF 2.0) for a year or so.
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Vincent de Lau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >  I think it is saver to assume that 2.0 *will* break existing stuff. There
> > are some major changes planned, like renaming classes. I wouldn’t be
> > surprised if ZF 2.0 is PHP 5.3 only (namespaces).
> >
> >
> >
> > There used to be a roadmap on the website (page still exists but doesn’t
> > seem to be linked to). Maybe it would be a good idea to reinstate this page
> > and add (preliminary) information about 2.0?

I mean that Matthew has written about the 2.0 release some weeks
ago. The relase plan is scheduled for mid 2010, I remember.

And if so, than it make sense to support PHP 5.3 only.
My 2 cents.

Greetings
Mario

--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS/CM d- s++: a+ C++++>$ UBL*++++$ P++ L+++ E--- W+++ N+ o-- K- w O- M-
V-- PS++ PE++ Y PGP+++ t--- 5 X++++ R++ tv- b+++ DI D++++  G++ e* h----
r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------



--
Michael Kimsal
http://jsmag.com - for javascript developers
http://groovymag.com - for groovy developers
919.827.4724
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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

Micah Gersten
ZF is already past 5.1.6 and has been since 1.7.  I don't think RHEL or CentOS should play any role in the decision as it's been 3 years since they updated.  Ubuntu will probably ship PHP 5.3 as default in the next LTS (probably 10.04).  Not so sure about Debian's next release.  dotdeb.org provides updated php packages for Debian stable though, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue for the people who actually want to move up.  I think it would be great if we can take advantage of the functionality of PHP 5.3 in ZF 2.0.
Thank you,
Micah Gersten
onShore Networks
Internal Developer
http://www.onshore.com


Michael Kimsal wrote:
While distro/php versions probably will always be a factor to some degree, putting too much weight on that as a deciding factor will lead to stagnation.  RHEL and CentOS, arguably the most 'enterprise' of Linux distros, still only officially support PHP 5.1.6, IIRC.  Yes, you can upgrade from other repos, but I think you lose whatever 'enterprise support' you might get (probably not as much of a concern for the CentOS users).


On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Mario Guenterberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
On So, Aug 09, 2009 at 04:52:55 -0400, mbneto wrote:
> Hi Vincent,
>
> I think it is too speculative to talk about a 5.3 only.   A few days ago
> Mathew mentioned that no major distro (at least the 'enterprise') are using
> the 5.3 version so I think that this will be a bad move, unless they do not
> plan to release the new version (ZF 2.0) for a year or so.
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Vincent de Lau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >  I think it is saver to assume that 2.0 *will* break existing stuff. There
> > are some major changes planned, like renaming classes. I wouldn’t be
> > surprised if ZF 2.0 is PHP 5.3 only (namespaces).
> >
> >
> >
> > There used to be a roadmap on the website (page still exists but doesn’t
> > seem to be linked to). Maybe it would be a good idea to reinstate this page
> > and add (preliminary) information about 2.0?

I mean that Matthew has written about the 2.0 release some weeks
ago. The relase plan is scheduled for mid 2010, I remember.

And if so, than it make sense to support PHP 5.3 only.
My 2 cents.

Greetings
Mario

--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GCS/CM d- s++: a+ C++++>$ UBL*++++$ P++ L+++ E--- W+++ N+ o-- K- w O- M-
V-- PS++ PE++ Y PGP+++ t--- 5 X++++ R++ tv- b+++ DI D++++  G++ e* h----
r+++ y++++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------



--
Michael Kimsal
http://jsmag.com - for javascript developers
http://groovymag.com - for groovy developers
919.827.4724
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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

Ralf Eggert
In reply to this post by Ralph Schindler-2
Hi,

Ralph Schindler schrieb am 11.08.2009 17:40:
> That said, if you got free time, fill in the 2.0 pages under ZFDEV if
> you can think of something you'd like to see implemented in 2.0 since a
> bc break is underway-- its always good to take down our brainstorming
> notes, our "what ifs" when they come to us.

Maybe I would be quite helpful to gather all these 2.0 pages an create a
page in the wiki which all 2.0 pages will be connected to. An this page
should be added to the front page of teh ZFDEV wiki. I did a quick
search and found these pages. Maybe there are more 2.0 pages that I missed.

http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Zend_Config+2.0
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Zend_Session+2.0
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=8946888
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Zend_View+2.0
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Zend_Controller+2.0
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Mail+sending+and+building+enhancements+2.0
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=3539056
http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFPROP/Naming+conventions+for+2.0+-+Matthew+Ratzloff

I think having a central place / page will help to get the 2.0 train
running slowly but surely. I would love to create a first draft of this
page but I am afraid I don't have enough user rights to change the ZFDEV
front page.

Just my 2 cents.

Best regards

Ralf

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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

Ralf Eggert
In reply to this post by Micah Gersten
Hi,

to keep it short and simply.

[hidden email] schrieb am 11.08.2009 20:20:
> I think it would be great if we can take advantage of the
> functionality of PHP 5.3 in ZF 2.0.

From my point of view, ZF 2.0 does not make any sense if it doesn't
depend on the new features of PHP 5.3. If it really doesn't support PHP
5.3 then we already need to think about ZF 3.0 already. Because
supporting 5.3 will definitely break backwards compatibility. And this
is only aloud in major releases. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Best regards,

Ralf
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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

Joó Ádám
In reply to this post by Ralf Eggert
+1 for 2.0 wiki page
+1 for PHP 5.3


Ádám
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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

Peter Warnock-3
In reply to this post by mgkimsal

Rackspace supports a custom build of 5.2 on RHEL.

On Aug 11, 2009 10:39 AM, "Michael Kimsal" <[hidden email]> wrote:

While distro/php versions probably will always be a factor to some degree, putting too much weight on that as a deciding factor will lead to stagnation.  RHEL and CentOS, arguably the most 'enterprise' of Linux distros, still only officially support PHP 5.1.6, IIRC.  Yes, you can upgrade from other repos, but I think you lose whatever 'enterprise support' you might get (probably not as much of a concern for the CentOS users).

On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Mario Guenterberg <[hidden email]> wrote: > > ...

--
Michael Kimsal
http://jsmag.com - for javascript developers
http://groovymag.com - for groovy developers
919.827.4724

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RE: Zend Framework 2.0

Vincent de Lau
In reply to this post by Ralf Eggert
> Van: Ralf Eggert [mailto:[hidden email]]

> [hidden email] schrieb am 11.08.2009 20:20:
> > I think it would be great if we can take advantage of the
> > functionality of PHP 5.3 in ZF 2.0.
>
> From my point of view, ZF 2.0 does not make any sense if it doesn't
> depend on the new features of PHP 5.3. If it really doesn't support PHP
> 5.3 then we already need to think about ZF 3.0 already. Because
> supporting 5.3 will definitely break backwards compatibility. And this
> is only aloud in major releases. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I couldn't agree more. If there is still a huge demand for a pre 5.3 version
of Zend, I think we need to extend the lifetime of ZF 1.x, by allowing mini
and maybe minor releases to be made.

At our shop, we run into minor issues even when upgrading to a new minor
release. I'm not looking forward to refactor all of our custom extensions
etcetera twice within a small amount of time. I'd probably decide to skip
2.0 if it doesn't contain PHP 5.3 support.

Vincent de Lau
 [hidden email]




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Re: Zend Framework 2.0

weierophinney
Administrator
In reply to this post by takeshin
I'm top-posting, as this is the original email, and there are points
throughout the thread I want to respond to.

First off, I'm sorry for the delay in my response -- I've been on
vacation, and completely offline for all but one day of it. :)

Ralf Eggert's idea of aggregating the various "2.0" component pages with
an "index" page is one I'll put into action this week, as well as start
aggregating notes I've been making on plans for 2.0 (some of which are
public, others of which are not).

As Ralph Schindler noted, 2.0 will be a long path, for a variety of
reasons. Yes, distro support is definitely one criteria, but only one.
As noted, we've already decided that RHEL's LTS cycle is ridiculously
long (a sentiment echoed by developers from other frameworks as well),
and waiting for it would unduly hamper innovation on part. Additionally
(/me puts on Zend hat here), with supported platforms such as Zend
Server now available, we can be a bit more aggressive with our
versioning than we have been in the past.

Will 2.0 be PHP 5.3 and above only? Most likely. As noted by a number of
you, there are some very compelling features in PHP 5.3, particularly
when it comes to framework developers, and I think we'd be remiss not to
use them. However, we need to evaluate each component and determine what
if any features they could use, and how we might best make use of those
features. Some that we know already we'll be using: namespaces,
closures, and __invoke(). These can make a variety of features much
easier and simpler, and make the syntax more succinct, particularly for
plugins.

Other considerations, as Ralph also noted, will come from what we've
learned in the 1.x series, as well as from other frameworks (both PHP
and otherwise). One thing I've learned from Dojo, for instance, is the
importance and simplicity of a common API, and we've been moving toward
this in recent versions with the introduction of common constructor
paradigms (passing an options array or Zend_Config object to
constructors). We'll likely be doing some refactoring to make this a
common strategy throughout the framework.

Another consideration we have is migration. Because we'll be breaking
backwards compatibility (which is typical of a major release), we want
to ensure that developers have an easy way to move to the newer versions
so we don't have to maintain the 1.x branch indefinitely. If we do not,
the success of the project will be rocky, as we'll have some people
staying with the 1.x branch, and others with 2.x.

All of these factors add to the amount of time it will take to get to
2.0. In the meantime, we will still be working on 1.X -- expect a 1.10
before the year is out, and potentially one or more versions after that.

-- admirau <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Sunday, 09 August 2009, 06:48 AM -0700):

>
> Are there any known plans for ZF 2.0?
> It will be an 'regular' release? Are planned any 'breaktrough' features
> (e.g. application backend like in Symfony, ORM)?
>
> I'm sure, it will be backwards compatilble,
> but what can we expect?
>
> I've found only this roadmap for Zend_Controller:
> http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV/Zend_Controller+2.0

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/