ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

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ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

Mike Willbanks
Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.

For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.

Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?

Regards,

Mike
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Re: ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

Marco Pivetta
I played around with variadics (a lot), and they're the biggest addition from an API perspective. Could really need them.




On 20 March 2015 at 11:59, Mike Willbanks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.

For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.

Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?

Regards,

Mike

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Re: ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

Wesley Overdijk
Seeing how for instance ubuntu won’t be shipping with 5.6 for a while, I suppose it depends on the deadline for zf3. If this is sooner rather than later I’d advice against going with 5.6.

Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,


Roberto Wesley Overdijk

M. +31 (0)6  15553243
                      _
                     / \
                     \\ \
             .-""-.   \\ '-.
           /` -.   '._/   o '.
         {`     \            /
          \     /  (   `;'-'`
           '.  '--.-'-._ '-.
             `-----`    `'--`



On Mar 20, 2015, at 13:04, Marco Pivetta <[hidden email]> wrote:

I played around with variadics (a lot), and they're the biggest addition from an API perspective. Could really need them.




On 20 March 2015 at 11:59, Mike Willbanks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.

For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.

Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?

Regards,

Mike


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Re: ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

manuakasam-2
Even as a 99% EndUser I'd like to see variadics in the source of ZF2.5+ 
Varidics make code so much more readable in my opinion. For some reason it's simply much easier to understand than func_get_args().

However, is this topic even open for discussion?
Going by the talk matthew gave a few days back 5.5 appears quite fixed (with the addition of php7-branch including scalars)

Wesley Overdijk <[hidden email]> schrieb am Fr., 20. März 2015 um 13:08 Uhr:
Seeing how for instance ubuntu won’t be shipping with 5.6 for a while, I suppose it depends on the deadline for zf3. If this is sooner rather than later I’d advice against going with 5.6.

Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,


Roberto Wesley Overdijk

M. +31 (0)6  15553243
                      _
                     / \
                     \\ \
             .-""-.   \\ '-.
           /` -.   '._/   o '.
         {`     \            /
          \     /  (   `;'-'`
           '.  '--.-'-._ '-.
             `-----`    `'--`



On Mar 20, 2015, at 13:04, Marco Pivetta <[hidden email]> wrote:

I played around with variadics (a lot), and they're the biggest addition from an API perspective. Could really need them.




On 20 March 2015 at 11:59, Mike Willbanks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.

For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.

Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?

Regards,

Mike


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Re: ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

cwt137
In reply to this post by Mike Willbanks
RHEL / Centos 7 comes with PHP 5.4.16. Via Redhat's Software collection repository, you can get PHP 5.5.6. I wouldn't require anything past 5.5.6 as it will alienate a whole bunch of people. Specially those who rely on web hosts that do not roll their own PHP, stick to official repos and stuff.

Chris

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:59 AM, Mike Willbanks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.

For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.

Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?

Regards,

Mike

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Re: ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

Mike Willbanks
In reply to this post by Mike Willbanks


On Mar 20, 2015 7:02 AM, "David Windell" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Wasn't 5.5 already decided?
>
> http://framework.zend.com/blog/announcing-the-zend-framework-3-roadmap.html

Yes, to a degree but we did not really discuss this much besides the blog post. It seems like a good time for discussion especially considering potential breaks for 3.x.

Why, well, changing signatures is a BC break. Having the extra language features means poly filling and all sorts of other madness that causes odd issues... Aka ArrayObject.

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> Registered Office: Martins Barn, Birdham Road, CHICHESTER, PO20 7BX
>
> On 20 March 2015 at 11:59, Mike Willbanks <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.
>>
>> For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.
>>
>> Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Mike
>
>

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Re: ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

Anthony Shireman
In reply to this post by cwt137
The Ubuntu 15.04 release will be in April of this year (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule)
According to the php5 package (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5) the version included in the release will be 5.6.4
Additionally, 5.5 will enter security release only (http://php.net/supported-versions.php) in just 2 months.

I realize that it's quite new now, but if ZF3 is released in Q3 what will the adoption of the Ubuntu release be by that point? Would development against a php version in active support or security release only be preferable? If 5.4 will be EOL in 6 months, will people who are looking to upgrade upgrade to just 5.5 or will they look into 5.6 at that time? I also know that Ubuntu isn't the only game in town and there's many other distros to consider. I do see ZF as driving adoption of newer releases of PHP not just because there may be shiny new features, but because those features help solve problems in improved ways. I feel like when this discussion comes up (See ML thread "Query: Should ZF2 bump the minimum required PHP version?") with a release there's similar arguments each time.

Should the framework appeal to the broadest possible base?
What users will be left out?
What features will we gain?

I would advocate for targeting 5.6.7 since it has the most up to date security patches. By the time ZF3 hits GA, 5.6 should be much more widely available. Though just because it's available doesn't mean people will use it.


Regards,



Tony
 


On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Chris Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
RHEL / Centos 7 comes with PHP 5.4.16. Via Redhat's Software collection repository, you can get PHP 5.5.6. I wouldn't require anything past 5.5.6 as it will alienate a whole bunch of people. Specially those who rely on web hosts that do not roll their own PHP, stick to official repos and stuff.

Chris

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:59 AM, Mike Willbanks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.

For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.

Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?

Regards,

Mike


Bat
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Re: ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

Bat
Hi all,

This question was brought to @mwop during the Meetup in SF about ZF3.

My two cents however. 
At my company, the friction of installing a new version of PHP is close to 0.
Adopting a new framework is done before considering the dependencies constraints in the stack.
Who really ask himself: "hmm I'm looking for a good PHP 5.3+ framework? "

If it improves readability, ease of maintenance, and speed, -> great.

If we have to wait for the conservative, lagging behind ones at the expense of letting the most innovative, risk takers of us to get bored ;) ... the conservative ones won't adopt ZF3 before several months if not years anyway...




On 20 March 2015 at 16:10, Anthony Shireman <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Ubuntu 15.04 release will be in April of this year (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule)
According to the php5 package (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5) the version included in the release will be 5.6.4
Additionally, 5.5 will enter security release only (http://php.net/supported-versions.php) in just 2 months.

I realize that it's quite new now, but if ZF3 is released in Q3 what will the adoption of the Ubuntu release be by that point? Would development against a php version in active support or security release only be preferable? If 5.4 will be EOL in 6 months, will people who are looking to upgrade upgrade to just 5.5 or will they look into 5.6 at that time? I also know that Ubuntu isn't the only game in town and there's many other distros to consider. I do see ZF as driving adoption of newer releases of PHP not just because there may be shiny new features, but because those features help solve problems in improved ways. I feel like when this discussion comes up (See ML thread "Query: Should ZF2 bump the minimum required PHP version?") with a release there's similar arguments each time.

Should the framework appeal to the broadest possible base?
What users will be left out?
What features will we gain?

I would advocate for targeting 5.6.7 since it has the most up to date security patches. By the time ZF3 hits GA, 5.6 should be much more widely available. Though just because it's available doesn't mean people will use it.


Regards,



Tony
 


On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Chris Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
RHEL / Centos 7 comes with PHP 5.4.16. Via Redhat's Software collection repository, you can get PHP 5.5.6. I wouldn't require anything past 5.5.6 as it will alienate a whole bunch of people. Specially those who rely on web hosts that do not roll their own PHP, stick to official repos and stuff.

Chris

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:59 AM, Mike Willbanks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.

For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.

Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?

Regards,

Mike





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Baptiste
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Re: ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

eminetto
I agree with Bat in: "the conservative ones won't adopt ZF3 before several months if not years anyway...".  And new projects probably won't have a lot of trouble using a newer version of PHP. 
+1 to 5.6 version :)




Elton Minetto
47 3227.6359
@eminetto
http://eltonminetto.net
Rua Henrique Meyer, nº40 , sala 01 | Centro | CEP: 89201405 | Joinville/SC



On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Bat <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

This question was brought to @mwop during the Meetup in SF about ZF3.

My two cents however. 
At my company, the friction of installing a new version of PHP is close to 0.
Adopting a new framework is done before considering the dependencies constraints in the stack.
Who really ask himself: "hmm I'm looking for a good PHP 5.3+ framework? "

If it improves readability, ease of maintenance, and speed, -> great.

If we have to wait for the conservative, lagging behind ones at the expense of letting the most innovative, risk takers of us to get bored ;) ... the conservative ones won't adopt ZF3 before several months if not years anyway...




On 20 March 2015 at 16:10, Anthony Shireman <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Ubuntu 15.04 release will be in April of this year (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule)
According to the php5 package (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5) the version included in the release will be 5.6.4
Additionally, 5.5 will enter security release only (http://php.net/supported-versions.php) in just 2 months.

I realize that it's quite new now, but if ZF3 is released in Q3 what will the adoption of the Ubuntu release be by that point? Would development against a php version in active support or security release only be preferable? If 5.4 will be EOL in 6 months, will people who are looking to upgrade upgrade to just 5.5 or will they look into 5.6 at that time? I also know that Ubuntu isn't the only game in town and there's many other distros to consider. I do see ZF as driving adoption of newer releases of PHP not just because there may be shiny new features, but because those features help solve problems in improved ways. I feel like when this discussion comes up (See ML thread "Query: Should ZF2 bump the minimum required PHP version?") with a release there's similar arguments each time.

Should the framework appeal to the broadest possible base?
What users will be left out?
What features will we gain?

I would advocate for targeting 5.6.7 since it has the most up to date security patches. By the time ZF3 hits GA, 5.6 should be much more widely available. Though just because it's available doesn't mean people will use it.


Regards,



Tony
 


On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Chris Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
RHEL / Centos 7 comes with PHP 5.4.16. Via Redhat's Software collection repository, you can get PHP 5.5.6. I wouldn't require anything past 5.5.6 as it will alienate a whole bunch of people. Specially those who rely on web hosts that do not roll their own PHP, stick to official repos and stuff.

Chris

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:59 AM, Mike Willbanks <[hidden email]> wrote:
Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.

For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.

Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?

Regards,

Mike





--
Baptiste

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Re: ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

zburnham
Please save a prayer for those of us that have an environment in which upgrading past 5.3 is impossible, because of your site which is stuck on ZF 1.9 because it relies on an outside set of libraries that will not be updated...

Many are in similar situations.  If, by some miracle, we get to a point where we can suggest a rewrite without getting fired on the spot, requiring that php be updated is a show-stopper.  

I'm not saying making 5.6 a requirement is a bad idea, but please keep in mind that there are people out there that can barely get 5.5 installed, and then only after bribery and blackmail.


On Friday, March 20, 2015, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree with Bat in: "the conservative ones won't adopt ZF3 before several months if not years anyway...".  And new projects probably won't have a lot of trouble using a newer version of PHP. 
+1 to 5.6 version :)




Elton Minetto
47 3227.6359
@eminetto
http://eltonminetto.net
Rua Henrique Meyer, nº40 , sala 01 | Centro | CEP: 89201405 | Joinville/SC



On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Bat <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;baptiste.manson@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">baptiste.manson@...> wrote:

Hi all,

This question was brought to @mwop during the Meetup in SF about ZF3.

My two cents however. 
At my company, the friction of installing a new version of PHP is close to 0.
Adopting a new framework is done before considering the dependencies constraints in the stack.
Who really ask himself: "hmm I'm looking for a good PHP 5.3+ framework? "

If it improves readability, ease of maintenance, and speed, -> great.

If we have to wait for the conservative, lagging behind ones at the expense of letting the most innovative, risk takers of us to get bored ;) ... the conservative ones won't adopt ZF3 before several months if not years anyway...




On 20 March 2015 at 16:10, Anthony Shireman <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;ashireman@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">ashireman@...> wrote:
The Ubuntu 15.04 release will be in April of this year (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule)
According to the php5 package (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5) the version included in the release will be 5.6.4
Additionally, 5.5 will enter security release only (http://php.net/supported-versions.php) in just 2 months.

I realize that it's quite new now, but if ZF3 is released in Q3 what will the adoption of the Ubuntu release be by that point? Would development against a php version in active support or security release only be preferable? If 5.4 will be EOL in 6 months, will people who are looking to upgrade upgrade to just 5.5 or will they look into 5.6 at that time? I also know that Ubuntu isn't the only game in town and there's many other distros to consider. I do see ZF as driving adoption of newer releases of PHP not just because there may be shiny new features, but because those features help solve problems in improved ways. I feel like when this discussion comes up (See ML thread "Query: Should ZF2 bump the minimum required PHP version?") with a release there's similar arguments each time.

Should the framework appeal to the broadest possible base?
What users will be left out?
What features will we gain?

I would advocate for targeting 5.6.7 since it has the most up to date security patches. By the time ZF3 hits GA, 5.6 should be much more widely available. Though just because it's available doesn't mean people will use it.


Regards,



Tony
 


On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:11 AM, Chris Thomas <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;cwt137@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">cwt137@...> wrote:
RHEL / Centos 7 comes with PHP 5.4.16. Via Redhat's Software collection repository, you can get PHP 5.5.6. I wouldn't require anything past 5.5.6 as it will alienate a whole bunch of people. Specially those who rely on web hosts that do not roll their own PHP, stick to official repos and stuff.

Chris

On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 4:59 AM, Mike Willbanks <<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,&#39;cvml&#39;,&#39;pencap@gmail.com&#39;);" target="_blank">pencap@...> wrote:
Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.

For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.

Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?

Regards,

Mike





--
Baptiste

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Re: ZF3 - Target PHP Versions

Oscar Fanelli
In reply to this post by Mike Willbanks
In my case, I’m using PHP 5.4 because the vBulletin platform can encounter serious problems if we upgrade to PHP 5.6. And unfortunately, here in Tom’s Hardware both ZF2 and vBulletin are hosted on the same server.
However, in a couple of month ZF2 and vBulletin will be in 2 different servers, so this won’t be a problem for me, but I’m telling you because others could have the same problem.

I'd really like to see and use variadics in my projects, i’m using them with Ruby (that implements for a long time) and I find them incredibly comfortable.
Moreover, I’m one of those who thinks that we have to make changes, not follow them.

+5.6. Everything IMHO :)

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Sviluppatore web, Tom’s Hardware Italia
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On 20 Mar 2015, at 12:59, Mike Willbanks <[hidden email]> wrote:

Since we are looking at an upcoming ZF3 and I am starting to rewire a few components, there is no better time than now to consider what is the lowest version that we will support.

For instance, there are areas in the framework where variadics make a ton of sense, however, that feature is not available until PHP 5.6.

Anyhow, whats our thoughts on this?

Regards,

Mike