Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Tomáš Fejfar
http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/zend-framework

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Thursday, 11 October 2012, 01:09 PM +0200):
> I agree with you, but are other developers so active on SO? There is
> also a problem, that we can't "vote" some members to have elevated
> privledges on SO (to fix tagging, reword questions, etc) - they need
> to get the "karma" first.
>
> I DO use SO to get answers and also answer questions myself (I'm even
> in top10 zf "aswerers" -
> http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) , but I don't
> feel like SO is desired channel for ZF support. It's promoted nowhere
> on the web. There is no guide for "systematic tagging", there is no
> notice, that users should upvote answers they found helpful (to make
> sort of FAQ from top questions), etc. SO is not part of ZF's
> ecosystem.

I think we _should_ push developers to SO, actually.

My main issue with SO is getting notifications of new questions
_delivered_ _to_ _me_ (again, if I have to poll it, I'm unlikely to use
it; I have enough to do already). Because I haven't figured that out,
I'm not very active on that platform. I suspect there is a way to do
that however, and if so, I'd be happy to promote that as a first line of
support, and use the mailing lists as a secondary forum.

> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Rob Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>     On 10 Oct 2012, at 13:00, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     > Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all?
>     Isn't a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with
>     moderation, adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more
>     SEO-friendly.
>
>     OOI, what do you think a forum brings to the ZF ecosystem that
>     StackOverflow doesn't provide?
>
>     I'm finding SO the best place for ZF information that isn't
>     contributor-discusssion. The really nice thing about SO, is that it's
>     really SEO friendly and when Google takes me there, I know that the SO
>     community and system has ensured that the best answers are there at the top
>     for me.   It doesn't work as a replacement for sf-contributor, but, for me
>     at least, I feel like I'm helping more ZF developers by answering SO
>     questions than answering questions anywhere else.
>
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Rob...
>
>

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc

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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Tim Fountain
I don't think there's any issue with having multiple avenues of support as long as they are all getting activity. Let users chose whether they want to get questions answered via. IRC, a mailing list or whatever. There's certainly enough ZF activity on Stack Overflow to warrant it getting linked to from the official site as one of the support options.

One tip, by default the SO RSS feeds order by last activity, so if someone goes through re-tagging a load of old questions they appear in your RSS feed again. This URL: http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/zend-framework?sort=newest will give you them in the proper date order.


Tim.


On 11 October 2012 14:57, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote:
http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/zend-framework


On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Thursday, 11 October 2012, 01:09 PM +0200):
> I agree with you, but are other developers so active on SO? There is
> also a problem, that we can't "vote" some members to have elevated
> privledges on SO (to fix tagging, reword questions, etc) - they need
> to get the "karma" first.
>
> I DO use SO to get answers and also answer questions myself (I'm even
> in top10 zf "aswerers" -
> http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) , but I don't
> feel like SO is desired channel for ZF support. It's promoted nowhere
> on the web. There is no guide for "systematic tagging", there is no
> notice, that users should upvote answers they found helpful (to make
> sort of FAQ from top questions), etc. SO is not part of ZF's
> ecosystem.

I think we _should_ push developers to SO, actually.

My main issue with SO is getting notifications of new questions
_delivered_ _to_ _me_ (again, if I have to poll it, I'm unlikely to use
it; I have enough to do already). Because I haven't figured that out,
I'm not very active on that platform. I suspect there is a way to do
that however, and if so, I'd be happy to promote that as a first line of
support, and use the mailing lists as a secondary forum.

> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Rob Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>     On 10 Oct 2012, at 13:00, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     > Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all?
>     Isn't a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with
>     moderation, adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more
>     SEO-friendly.
>
>     OOI, what do you think a forum brings to the ZF ecosystem that
>     StackOverflow doesn't provide?
>
>     I'm finding SO the best place for ZF information that isn't
>     contributor-discusssion. The really nice thing about SO, is that it's
>     really SEO friendly and when Google takes me there, I know that the SO
>     community and system has ensured that the best answers are there at the top
>     for me.   It doesn't work as a replacement for sf-contributor, but, for me
>     at least, I feel like I'm helping more ZF developers by answering SO
>     questions than answering questions anywhere else.
>
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Rob...
>
>

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc




--
Tim Fountain
http://tfountain.co.uk/
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

weierophinney
Administrator
In reply to this post by Tomáš Fejfar
-- Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Thursday, 11 October 2012, 03:57 PM +0200):
> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/zend-framework

Yeah, I did some googling after that last email, and discovered that, as
well as the fact that they have daily email digests. As such, and
considering the campaign we had earlier this year to have a dedicated SO
domain, I'm going to suggest that I update the site to point developers
to the zend-framework tag on SO for support.

Anybody have any objections?


> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>     -- Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote
>     (on Thursday, 11 October 2012, 01:09 PM +0200):
>     > I agree with you, but are other developers so active on SO? There is
>     > also a problem, that we can't "vote" some members to have elevated
>     > privledges on SO (to fix tagging, reword questions, etc) - they need
>     > to get the "karma" first.
>     >
>     > I DO use SO to get answers and also answer questions myself (I'm even
>     > in top10 zf "aswerers" -
>     > http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) , but I don't
>     > feel like SO is desired channel for ZF support. It's promoted nowhere
>     > on the web. There is no guide for "systematic tagging", there is no
>     > notice, that users should upvote answers they found helpful (to make
>     > sort of FAQ from top questions), etc. SO is not part of ZF's
>     > ecosystem.
>
>     I think we _should_ push developers to SO, actually.
>
>     My main issue with SO is getting notifications of new questions
>     _delivered_ _to_ _me_ (again, if I have to poll it, I'm unlikely to use
>     it; I have enough to do already). Because I haven't figured that out,
>     I'm not very active on that platform. I suspect there is a way to do
>     that however, and if so, I'd be happy to promote that as a first line of
>     support, and use the mailing lists as a secondary forum.
>
>     > On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Rob Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     >     On 10 Oct 2012, at 13:00, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]>
>     wrote:
>     >
>     >     > Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at
>     all?
>     >     Isn't a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with
>     >     moderation, adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more
>     >     SEO-friendly.
>     >
>     >     OOI, what do you think a forum brings to the ZF ecosystem that
>     >     StackOverflow doesn't provide?
>     >
>     >     I'm finding SO the best place for ZF information that isn't
>     >     contributor-discusssion. The really nice thing about SO, is that it's
>     >     really SEO friendly and when Google takes me there, I know that the
>     SO
>     >     community and system has ensured that the best answers are there at
>     the top
>     >     for me.   It doesn't work as a replacement for sf-contributor, but,
>     for me
>     >     at least, I feel like I'm helping more ZF developers by answering SO
>     >     questions than answering questions anywhere else.
>     >
>     >
>     >     Regards,
>     >
>     >     Rob...
>     >
>     >
>
>     --
>     Matthew Weier O'Phinney
>     Project Lead            | [hidden email]
>     Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
>     PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
>
>

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

akrabat
On 11 Oct 2012, at 16:44, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]> wrote:

> -- Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote
> (on Thursday, 11 October 2012, 03:57 PM +0200):
>> http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/zend-framework
>
> Yeah, I did some googling after that last email, and discovered that, as
> well as the fact that they have daily email digests. As such, and
> considering the campaign we had earlier this year to have a dedicated SO
> domain, I'm going to suggest that I update the site to point developers
> to the zend-framework tag on SO for support.
>
> Anybody have any objections?


As far as I'm aware, there are two tags: zend-framework and zend-framework2

I'm watching zend-framework2 at the moment.

Regards,

Rob...
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Ralf Eggert
In reply to this post by weierophinney
Hi Matthew,

> Yeah, I did some googling after that last email, and discovered that, as
> well as the fact that they have daily email digests. As such, and
> considering the campaign we had earlier this year to have a dedicated SO
> domain, I'm going to suggest that I update the site to point developers
> to the zend-framework tag on SO for support.
>
> Anybody have any objections?

Since I did not find anything about it, have you done the site update so
far?

Regards,

Ralf
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

weierophinney
Administrator
Ralf --

We voted at the beginning of October to:

- Remove all email lists other than fw-announce, zf-contributors, and fw-general
- Direct developers to SO on the zend-framework, zend-framework2, and
zend-framework-modules tags

Unfortunately, neither myself nor my team has had time to work on
these initiatives to date (we have a little work to do to close the
old lists, and ideally I'd like to redirect mails to closed lists to
the appropriate remaining lists). I'm hoping to do so in the next 1 to
2 weeks.

On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Ralf Eggert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Matthew,
>
>> Yeah, I did some googling after that last email, and discovered that, as
>> well as the fact that they have daily email digests. As such, and
>> considering the campaign we had earlier this year to have a dedicated SO
>> domain, I'm going to suggest that I update the site to point developers
>> to the zend-framework tag on SO for support.
>>
>> Anybody have any objections?
>
> Since I did not find anything about it, have you done the site update so
> far?
>
> Regards,
>
> Ralf



--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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