Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

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Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

ralphschindler
hey all,

I noticed this thread from nabble:

http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html

As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is
actually not captured by the mailing list.

So, what should we do about this?

I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I don't
get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In any case,
I'd like to make a case for only supporting:

   * zf-contributors
   * fw-general

And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is technically
possible.

What do you guys think?

-ralph
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

weierophinney
Administrator
-- Ralph Schindler <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Tuesday, 09 October 2012, 05:15 PM -0500):

> I noticed this thread from nabble:
>
> http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html
>
> As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is
> actually not captured by the mailing list.
>
> So, what should we do about this?
>
> I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I
> don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In
> any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:
>
>   * zf-contributors
>   * fw-general
>
> And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is
> technically possible.

I actually put this on the IRC meeting agenda yesterday. I was a little
more conservative, and mentioned keeping the following as well:

    * fw-svn-docs (as ZF1 doc translation still occurs, and this list is
      how translators are notified of changes)
    * fw-announce (for obvious reasons)
    * fw-all (which would subscribe to all but fw-svn-docs)

Otherwise, yes, I'm in agreement. :)

The agenda is here:

    http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV2/2012-10-10+Meeting+Agenda

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

ThaDafinser
In reply to this post by ralphschindler

Less in more....

Am 10.10.2012 00:15 schrieb "Ralph Schindler" <[hidden email]>:
hey all,

I noticed this thread from nabble:

http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html

As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is actually not captured by the mailing list.

So, what should we do about this?

I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:

  * zf-contributors
  * fw-general

And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is technically possible.

What do you guys think?

-ralph
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

David Muir-2
Agree. Nabble made everything extremely painful, and the sheer number of mailing lists was confusing. One for general one for internals makes sense.

Cheers,
David

On 10/10/12 15:55, Martin Keckeis wrote:

Less in more....

Am 10.10.2012 00:15 schrieb "Ralph Schindler" <[hidden email]>:
hey all,

I noticed this thread from nabble:

http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html

As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is actually not captured by the mailing list.

So, what should we do about this?

I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:

  * zf-contributors
  * fw-general

And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is technically possible.

What do you guys think?

-ralph

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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Wesley Overdijk
@Martin, Technically it would be more in less :p

I agree, but I'd also keep the "all" one. I'd like to read everything.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 7:07 AM, David Muir <[hidden email]> wrote:
Agree. Nabble made everything extremely painful, and the sheer number of mailing lists was confusing. One for general one for internals makes sense.

Cheers,
David


On 10/10/12 15:55, Martin Keckeis wrote:

Less in more....

Am 10.10.2012 00:15 schrieb "Ralph Schindler" <[hidden email]>:
hey all,

I noticed this thread from nabble:

http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html

As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is actually not captured by the mailing list.

So, what should we do about this?

I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:

  * zf-contributors
  * fw-general

And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is technically possible.

What do you guys think?

-ralph


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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Andreas Möller
In reply to this post by ralphschindler

> I noticed this thread from nabble:
>
> http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html
>
> As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is actually not captured by the mailing list.
>
> So, what should we do about this?
>
> I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:
>
>  * zf-contributors
>  * fw-general
>
> And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is technically possible.
>
> What do you guys think?

Agreed.


Best regards,

Andreas
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Tomáš Fejfar
In reply to this post by weierophinney
Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all? Isn't a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with moderation, adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more SEO-friendly. 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Ralph Schindler <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Tuesday, 09 October 2012, 05:15 PM -0500):
> I noticed this thread from nabble:
>
> http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html
>
> As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is
> actually not captured by the mailing list.
>
> So, what should we do about this?
>
> I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I
> don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In
> any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:
>
>   * zf-contributors
>   * fw-general
>
> And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is
> technically possible.

I actually put this on the IRC meeting agenda yesterday. I was a little
more conservative, and mentioned keeping the following as well:

    * fw-svn-docs (as ZF1 doc translation still occurs, and this list is
      how translators are notified of changes)
    * fw-announce (for obvious reasons)
    * fw-all (which would subscribe to all but fw-svn-docs)

Otherwise, yes, I'm in agreement. :)

The agenda is here:

    http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV2/2012-10-10+Meeting+Agenda

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc

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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Marco Pivetta
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
I agree that a single ML may work fine too (or two, one for dev, one for users).

@Thomas I personally prefer the mailing list approach for every development discussion I'm in... Forums don't force questions to your inbox, and thus interaction would be reduced. SEO friendlyness has never been a problem on mailing lists either.

Marco Pivetta

http://twitter.com/Ocramius     

http://marco-pivetta.com    



On 10 October 2012 14:01, Tomáš Fejfar [via Zend Framework Community] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all? Isn't a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with moderation, adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more SEO-friendly. 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Ralph Schindler <[hidden email]> wrote

(on Tuesday, 09 October 2012, 05:15 PM -0500):
> I noticed this thread from nabble:
>
> http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html
>
> As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is
> actually not captured by the mailing list.
>
> So, what should we do about this?
>
> I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I
> don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In
> any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:
>
>   * zf-contributors
>   * fw-general
>
> And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is
> technically possible.

I actually put this on the IRC meeting agenda yesterday. I was a little
more conservative, and mentioned keeping the following as well:

    * fw-svn-docs (as ZF1 doc translation still occurs, and this list is
      how translators are notified of changes)
    * fw-announce (for obvious reasons)
    * fw-all (which would subscribe to all but fw-svn-docs)

Otherwise, yes, I'm in agreement. :)

The agenda is here:

    http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV2/2012-10-10+Meeting+Agenda

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]




To start a new topic under ZF Contributor, email [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from ZF Contributor, click here.
NAML

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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Derek Miranda
In reply to this post by Tomáš Fejfar
On Oct 10, 2012, at 8:00 AM, Tomáš Fejfar wrote:

Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all? Isn't a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with moderation, adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more SEO-friendly. 

+1 I completely agree. I know some people say they will never check the forums and the email is the best way for them. Well, they can get an email from the forum on every post and can simply reply to the email to post a comment back. 
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Ralph Schindler <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Tuesday, 09 October 2012, 05:15 PM -0500):
> I noticed this thread from nabble:
>
> http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html
>
> As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is
> actually not captured by the mailing list.
>
> So, what should we do about this?
>
> I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I
> don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In
> any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:
>
>   * zf-contributors
>   * fw-general
>
> And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is
> technically possible.

I actually put this on the IRC meeting agenda yesterday. I was a little
more conservative, and mentioned keeping the following as well:

    * fw-svn-docs (as ZF1 doc translation still occurs, and this list is
      how translators are notified of changes)
    * fw-announce (for obvious reasons)
    * fw-all (which would subscribe to all but fw-svn-docs)

Otherwise, yes, I'm in agreement. :)

The agenda is here:

    http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV2/2012-10-10+Meeting+Agenda

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc


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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

weierophinney
Administrator
In reply to this post by Tomáš Fejfar
-- Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 02:00 PM +0200):
> Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all? Isn't
> a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with moderation,
> adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more SEO-friendly.

Well, there's a bunch of us who prefer the information to be pushed to
us, rather than having to pull it. In other words, I'd rather not need
to go and browse through the forum to see the topics -- I'd rather get
them delivered to me. Considering the amount of things I need to look
through each day, being able to browse my mail folders is much more
efficient than browsing through multiple web pages and clicking through
to individual threads.

Additionally, having a forum means another piece of infrastructure we
need to maintain -- the software itself, a database (and replication and
all that goes with that), the website (if on a different vhost), scaling
issues, etc. And while I understand the allure of having tagging,
categories, and moderation -- who's going to handle all of that?

A listserv requires very little administrative overhead. It's simpler.
It gets the job done for the most part. (No solution is perfect.)


> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>     -- Ralph Schindler <[hidden email]> wrote
>     (on Tuesday, 09 October 2012, 05:15 PM -0500):
>     > I noticed this thread from nabble:
>     >
>     > http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/
>     Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html
>     >
>     > As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is
>     > actually not captured by the mailing list.
>     >
>     > So, what should we do about this?
>     >
>     > I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I
>     > don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In
>     > any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:
>     >
>     >   * zf-contributors
>     >   * fw-general
>     >
>     > And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is
>     > technically possible.
>
>     I actually put this on the IRC meeting agenda yesterday. I was a little
>     more conservative, and mentioned keeping the following as well:
>
>         * fw-svn-docs (as ZF1 doc translation still occurs, and this list is
>           how translators are notified of changes)
>         * fw-announce (for obvious reasons)
>         * fw-all (which would subscribe to all but fw-svn-docs)
>
>     Otherwise, yes, I'm in agreement. :)
>
>     The agenda is here:
>
>         http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV2/2012-10-10+Meeting+Agenda
>    
>     --
>     Matthew Weier O'Phinney
>     Project Lead            | [hidden email]
>     Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
>     PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
>
>

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

weierophinney
Administrator
In reply to this post by Derek Miranda
-- Derek Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 08:41 AM -0400):

> On Oct 10, 2012, at 8:00 AM, Tom   Fejfar wrote:
>
>
>     Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all?
>     Isn't a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with
>     moderation, adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more
>     SEO-friendly.
>
>
> +1 I completely agree. I know some people say they will never check the forums
> and the email is the best way for them. Well, they can get an email from the
> forum on every post and can simply reply to the email to post a comment back.

Please see my previous post in the thread -- while there are forums that
allow this, they require a fair amount of work behind the scenes to set
up and maintain. Additionally, spam falls through far more often, which
means somebody has to actively go through and moderate.

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Tomáš Fejfar
In reply to this post by weierophinney
Forums work just fine pushing you updates. I'm sure that in case of SMF, there is this feature "unred since my last login". That just serves you all the threads, that have new content (or threads you participate that have new content). 

You don't need to read all the stuff and you don't have to deal with all the problems in the ML. Forum offers much more possibilities to further delegate stuff. I think that for some people it would be an honor to moderate ZF forum, others might like to have something like that in their CV (as irrelevant it to their dev-skills may be). IT's also possible to make topics sticky for those looking for answers, You can also rename or reword posts to reflect what they are about. That leads to more discoverability and reusability of answers. 

To be honest - there are many people that don't understand how ML works and what is it good for. There are many ZF forums around the globe (i'm completly positive there is one in Czech Republic - http://forum.zendframework.cz) and they work just fine. There is no "official" ZF community. There is ZF tag on stackoverflow (and that's mostly the source of answers for ZF questions). There are zfforums with many threads and posts, there is nabble, there is ML (which is practically a nabble "backend", although not presented like it), there is IRC channel. 

And not that it's an argument per-se, but Symfony, Yii, Drupal - majority of comunity projects have official forum (on the project's domain). 

But I understand your point. I wonder what others think about this issue. 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]> wrote:
-- Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 02:00 PM +0200):
> Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all? Isn't
> a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with moderation,
> adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more SEO-friendly.

Well, there's a bunch of us who prefer the information to be pushed to
us, rather than having to pull it. In other words, I'd rather not need
to go and browse through the forum to see the topics -- I'd rather get
them delivered to me. Considering the amount of things I need to look
through each day, being able to browse my mail folders is much more
efficient than browsing through multiple web pages and clicking through
to individual threads.

Additionally, having a forum means another piece of infrastructure we
need to maintain -- the software itself, a database (and replication and
all that goes with that), the website (if on a different vhost), scaling
issues, etc. And while I understand the allure of having tagging,
categories, and moderation -- who's going to handle all of that?

A listserv requires very little administrative overhead. It's simpler.
It gets the job done for the most part. (No solution is perfect.)


> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>     -- Ralph Schindler <[hidden email]> wrote
>     (on Tuesday, 09 October 2012, 05:15 PM -0500):
>     > I noticed this thread from nabble:
>     >
>     > http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/
>     Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html
>     >
>     > As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is
>     > actually not captured by the mailing list.
>     >
>     > So, what should we do about this?
>     >
>     > I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I
>     > don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In
>     > any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:
>     >
>     >   * zf-contributors
>     >   * fw-general
>     >
>     > And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is
>     > technically possible.
>
>     I actually put this on the IRC meeting agenda yesterday. I was a little
>     more conservative, and mentioned keeping the following as well:
>
>         * fw-svn-docs (as ZF1 doc translation still occurs, and this list is
>           how translators are notified of changes)
>         * fw-announce (for obvious reasons)
>         * fw-all (which would subscribe to all but fw-svn-docs)
>
>     Otherwise, yes, I'm in agreement. :)
>
>     The agenda is here:
>
>         http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV2/2012-10-10+Meeting+Agenda
>
>     --
>     Matthew Weier O'Phinney
>     Project Lead            | [hidden email]
>     Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
>     PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
>
>

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc

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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Andreas Heigl
In reply to this post by weierophinney
Thanks Matthew.

+1

(I was just writing an email with exactly the same arguments. But not as well formed)

Regards

Andreas



--
Andreas Heigl
[hidden email]

Am 10.10.2012 um 15:43 schrieb Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]>:

> -- Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote
> (on Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 02:00 PM +0200):
>> Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all? Isn't
>> a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with moderation,
>> adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more SEO-friendly.
>
> Well, there's a bunch of us who prefer the information to be pushed to
> us, rather than having to pull it. In other words, I'd rather not need
> to go and browse through the forum to see the topics -- I'd rather get
> them delivered to me. Considering the amount of things I need to look
> through each day, being able to browse my mail folders is much more
> efficient than browsing through multiple web pages and clicking through
> to individual threads.
>
> Additionally, having a forum means another piece of infrastructure we
> need to maintain -- the software itself, a database (and replication and
> all that goes with that), the website (if on a different vhost), scaling
> issues, etc. And while I understand the allure of having tagging,
> categories, and moderation -- who's going to handle all of that?
>
> A listserv requires very little administrative overhead. It's simpler.
> It gets the job done for the most part. (No solution is perfect.)
>
>
>> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>    -- Ralph Schindler <[hidden email]> wrote
>>    (on Tuesday, 09 October 2012, 05:15 PM -0500):
>>> I noticed this thread from nabble:
>>>
>>> http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/
>>    Problem-with-PDO-and-left-join-td4657289.html
>>>
>>> As you can see, it is going to fw-db and most of the discussion is
>>> actually not captured by the mailing list.
>>>
>>> So, what should we do about this?
>>>
>>> I am subscribed to fw-all and zf-contributors, I am unsure why I
>>> don't get fw-db at all (I think I was perhaps unsubscribed?).  In
>>> any case, I'd like to make a case for only supporting:
>>>
>>>  * zf-contributors
>>>  * fw-general
>>>
>>> And then funnel all other lists into fw-general, if this is
>>> technically possible.
>>
>>    I actually put this on the IRC meeting agenda yesterday. I was a little
>>    more conservative, and mentioned keeping the following as well:
>>
>>        * fw-svn-docs (as ZF1 doc translation still occurs, and this list is
>>          how translators are notified of changes)
>>        * fw-announce (for obvious reasons)
>>        * fw-all (which would subscribe to all but fw-svn-docs)
>>
>>    Otherwise, yes, I'm in agreement. :)
>>
>>    The agenda is here:
>>
>>        http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV2/2012-10-10+Meeting+Agenda
>>
>>    --
>>    Matthew Weier O'Phinney
>>    Project Lead            | [hidden email]
>>    Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
>>    PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
>>
>>
>
> --
> Matthew Weier O'Phinney
> Project Lead            | [hidden email]
> Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
> PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

akrabat
In reply to this post by Tomáš Fejfar

On 10 Oct 2012, at 13:00, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all? Isn't a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with moderation, adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more SEO-friendly.

OOI, what do you think a forum brings to the ZF ecosystem that StackOverflow doesn't provide?

I'm finding SO the best place for ZF information that isn't contributor-discusssion. The really nice thing about SO, is that it's really SEO friendly and when Google takes me there, I know that the SO community and system has ensured that the best answers are there at the top for me.   It doesn't work as a replacement for sf-contributor, but, for me at least, I feel like I'm helping more ZF developers by answering SO questions than answering questions anywhere else.


Regards,

Rob...
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Tomáš Fejfar
I agree with you, but are other developers so active on SO? There is also a problem, that we can't "vote" some members to have elevated privledges on SO (to fix tagging, reword questions, etc) - they need to get the "karma" first. 

I DO use SO to get answers and also answer questions myself (I'm even in top10 zf "aswerers" - http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) , but I don't feel like SO is desired channel for ZF support. It's promoted nowhere on the web. There is no guide for "systematic tagging", there is no notice, that users should upvote answers they found helpful (to make sort of FAQ from top questions), etc. SO is not part of ZF's ecosystem. 

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Rob Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 10 Oct 2012, at 13:00, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all? Isn't a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with moderation, adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more SEO-friendly.

OOI, what do you think a forum brings to the ZF ecosystem that StackOverflow doesn't provide?

I'm finding SO the best place for ZF information that isn't contributor-discusssion. The really nice thing about SO, is that it's really SEO friendly and when Google takes me there, I know that the SO community and system has ensured that the best answers are there at the top for me.   It doesn't work as a replacement for sf-contributor, but, for me at least, I feel like I'm helping more ZF developers by answering SO questions than answering questions anywhere else.


Regards,

Rob...

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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

akrabat

On 11 Oct 2012, at 12:09, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree with you, but are other developers so active on SO? There is also a problem, that we can't "vote" some members to have elevated privledges on SO (to fix tagging, reword questions, etc) - they need to get the "karma" first. 

I actually think this is a key strength of SO. You could vote me to have elevated privileges on some 'official' ZF forum, but you have no evidence that I would actually turn up and understand that forum's ethos.

I DO use SO to get answers and also answer questions myself (I'm even in top10 zf "aswerers" - http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) , but I don't feel like SO is desired channel for ZF support. It's promoted nowhere on the web. There is no guide for "systematic tagging", there is no notice, that users should upvote answers they found helpful (to make sort of FAQ from top questions), etc. SO is not part of ZF's ecosystem. 


I don't think the ZF community has a 'desired' channel for support in the same way that PHP doesn't have one either.

Regards,

Rob...

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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

rwrz
Maybe a forum?
It is more organized! =)

IRC isnt a good channel for support either... IRC is dead... =) And no one use it anymore.



On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Rob Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 11 Oct 2012, at 12:09, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree with you, but are other developers so active on SO? There is also a problem, that we can't "vote" some members to have elevated privledges on SO (to fix tagging, reword questions, etc) - they need to get the "karma" first. 

I actually think this is a key strength of SO. You could vote me to have elevated privileges on some 'official' ZF forum, but you have no evidence that I would actually turn up and understand that forum's ethos.

I DO use SO to get answers and also answer questions myself (I'm even in top10 zf "aswerers" - http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) , but I don't feel like SO is desired channel for ZF support. It's promoted nowhere on the web. There is no guide for "systematic tagging", there is no notice, that users should upvote answers they found helpful (to make sort of FAQ from top questions), etc. SO is not part of ZF's ecosystem. 


I don't think the ZF community has a 'desired' channel for support in the same way that PHP doesn't have one either.

Regards,

Rob...


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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

Spabby
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
"IRC isnt a good channel for support either... IRC is dead... =) And no one use it anymore."

P F F T.

G

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 2:16 PM, rwrz [via Zend Framework Community] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Maybe a forum?
It is more organized! =)

IRC isnt a good channel for support either... IRC is dead... =) And no one use it anymore.



On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Rob Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:


On 11 Oct 2012, at 12:09, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree with you, but are other developers so active on SO? There is also a problem, that we can't "vote" some members to have elevated privledges on SO (to fix tagging, reword questions, etc) - they need to get the "karma" first. 

I actually think this is a key strength of SO. You could vote me to have elevated privileges on some 'official' ZF forum, but you have no evidence that I would actually turn up and understand that forum's ethos.

I DO use SO to get answers and also answer questions myself (I'm even in top10 zf "aswerers" - http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) , but I don't feel like SO is desired channel for ZF support. It's promoted nowhere on the web. There is no guide for "systematic tagging", there is no notice, that users should upvote answers they found helpful (to make sort of FAQ from top questions), etc. SO is not part of ZF's ecosystem. 


I don't think the ZF community has a 'desired' channel for support in the same way that PHP doesn't have one either.

Regards,

Rob...





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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

weierophinney
Administrator
In reply to this post by Tomáš Fejfar
-- Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Thursday, 11 October 2012, 01:09 PM +0200):

> I agree with you, but are other developers so active on SO? There is
> also a problem, that we can't "vote" some members to have elevated
> privledges on SO (to fix tagging, reword questions, etc) - they need
> to get the "karma" first.
>
> I DO use SO to get answers and also answer questions myself (I'm even
> in top10 zf "aswerers" -
> http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) , but I don't
> feel like SO is desired channel for ZF support. It's promoted nowhere
> on the web. There is no guide for "systematic tagging", there is no
> notice, that users should upvote answers they found helpful (to make
> sort of FAQ from top questions), etc. SO is not part of ZF's
> ecosystem.

I think we _should_ push developers to SO, actually.

My main issue with SO is getting notifications of new questions
_delivered_ _to_ _me_ (again, if I have to poll it, I'm unlikely to use
it; I have enough to do already). Because I haven't figured that out,
I'm not very active on that platform. I suspect there is a way to do
that however, and if so, I'd be happy to promote that as a first line of
support, and use the mailing lists as a secondary forum.

> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Rob Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>     On 10 Oct 2012, at 13:00, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     > Just curiosity on my part, but what's the point in mailing lists at all?
>     Isn't a forum much better? It can be handled much more fluently with
>     moderation, adding categories, tagging, banning, etc. It's also more
>     SEO-friendly.
>
>     OOI, what do you think a forum brings to the ZF ecosystem that
>     StackOverflow doesn't provide?
>
>     I'm finding SO the best place for ZF information that isn't
>     contributor-discusssion. The really nice thing about SO, is that it's
>     really SEO friendly and when Google takes me there, I know that the SO
>     community and system has ensured that the best answers are there at the top
>     for me.   It doesn't work as a replacement for sf-contributor, but, for me
>     at least, I feel like I'm helping more ZF developers by answering SO
>     questions than answering questions anywhere else.
>
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Rob...
>
>

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: Should We Discontinue Component Specific Mailing Lists

tawfekov
In reply to this post by rwrz
If may I suggest the SO chat rooms , like this room http://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/17663/zend-framework 
  • I guess every body can create rooms 
  • easily controlled 
  • web accessible 
  • Realtime
  • History support 



On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Rodrigo Picinin - RWRZ <[hidden email]> wrote:
Maybe a forum?
It is more organized! =)

IRC isnt a good channel for support either... IRC is dead... =) And no one use it anymore.



On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Rob Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 11 Oct 2012, at 12:09, Tomáš Fejfar <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree with you, but are other developers so active on SO? There is also a problem, that we can't "vote" some members to have elevated privledges on SO (to fix tagging, reword questions, etc) - they need to get the "karma" first. 

I actually think this is a key strength of SO. You could vote me to have elevated privileges on some 'official' ZF forum, but you have no evidence that I would actually turn up and understand that forum's ethos.

I DO use SO to get answers and also answer questions myself (I'm even in top10 zf "aswerers" - http://stackoverflow.com/tags/zend-framework/topusers) , but I don't feel like SO is desired channel for ZF support. It's promoted nowhere on the web. There is no guide for "systematic tagging", there is no notice, that users should upvote answers they found helpful (to make sort of FAQ from top questions), etc. SO is not part of ZF's ecosystem. 


I don't think the ZF community has a 'desired' channel for support in the same way that PHP doesn't have one either.

Regards,

Rob...



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