Release planning

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Release planning

Ralf Eggert
Hi,

currently, I am quite busy with ZF2 training courses. Almost in every
course these days one big question pop up by the participants:

    How is the release cycle evolving in the next feature?
    And when will ZF3 be released?

When this question comes up, I always refer to the planned release cycle
which stated monthly maintenance releases, minor release every 8 to 12
weeks and major releases every 18 to 24 months.

In the past, this schedule worked for quite a long time. The first
release that took much longer was the 2.2.5 which took almost 10 weeks
instead of one month. The 2.2.6 release is overdue since more than 3
months today. And the 2.3.0 is overdue for almost 38 weeks.

For the framework users which don't read the mailing lists or keep
themselves informed with blogs, GitHub or conferences this looks like
the ZF2 is loosing its momentum and they are asking if they should
really stick to ZF2 if the development is slowing down.

What do others think? Where is the momentum gone to?

Thanks and best regards,

Ralf
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Re: Release planning

jmleroux
Hello,

Even on Github, ZF2 seems a bit dampened : 16 days since last merge.
For a project of this magnitude, it's a little too long.

Best regards,

JM

Le 02/02/2014 12:17, Ralf Eggert a écrit :

> Hi,
>
> currently, I am quite busy with ZF2 training courses. Almost in every
> course these days one big question pop up by the participants:
>
>      How is the release cycle evolving in the next feature?
>      And when will ZF3 be released?
>
> When this question comes up, I always refer to the planned release cycle
> which stated monthly maintenance releases, minor release every 8 to 12
> weeks and major releases every 18 to 24 months.
>
> In the past, this schedule worked for quite a long time. The first
> release that took much longer was the 2.2.5 which took almost 10 weeks
> instead of one month. The 2.2.6 release is overdue since more than 3
> months today. And the 2.3.0 is overdue for almost 38 weeks.
>
> For the framework users which don't read the mailing lists or keep
> themselves informed with blogs, GitHub or conferences this looks like
> the ZF2 is loosing its momentum and they are asking if they should
> really stick to ZF2 if the development is slowing down.
>
> What do others think? Where is the momentum gone to?
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
> Ralf

--
JM Leroux

https://github.com/jmleroux

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Re: Release planning

dolphin
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
If you notice a few days ago 2.2.6dev began to pass the tests. I think the work is not in place.
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Re: Release planning

Ben Scholzen 'DASPRiD'
In reply to this post by Ralf Eggert
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jah
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Re: Release planning

jah
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by Ralf Eggert
From: http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Query-Should-ZF2-bump-the-minimum-required-PHP-version-td4661158i20.html

@weierophinney(Dec 07, 2013),
Hey, all --

I never closed this thread, but will do so now.

ZF 2.3.0 WILL bump the version to at least 5.3.9; we may bump to the
last 5.3 release version (5.3.27), as that contains the last security
fixes applied to the 5.3 branch, and distros that provide 5.3 either
have 5.3.3 or 5.3.latest typically; Zend Server, which should run on
just about any OS out there, ships 5.3.27 already, and is a viable
option for upgrade for those whose distros are stuck on older
versions.

We *DO* have precedence for bumping the minimum required version at
minor release versions; we did this with 1.7 (bumped to 5.2.4) and
again with 1.12 (bumped to 5.2.<latest at the time>). Additionally, as
others noted in the thread, if you are "stuck" with an LTS server
edition, typically you are also pinning to specific ZF versions long
term as well, as it's part of your release process.

While I am aware this will displease some of you, we cannot please
everyone, and we have some very real issues in the code base that
require fixes introduced starting in 5.3.9. Considering that we are in
the last few months of security releases for the 5.3 branch, an
upgrade to 5.4 or higher is strongly encouraged by the PHP group
anyways.


@weierophinney(Dec 07, 2013), Yes -- we're not abandoning 2.2, we're just bumping the minimum
required PHP version for 2.3 onwards.
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Re: Release planning

Ralf Eggert
In reply to this post by Ben Scholzen 'DASPRiD'
Hi Ben,

> Quite a few of the core developers are either busy with other stuff
> right now or working on ZF3. I'm not sure why there has been no
> maintenance release, but that may be have different reasons. I'm not
> sure where we are currently standing.
>
> There are quite a few ZF3 features done in different repositories by
> different users. Especially Bakura and Ocramius worked a lot on
> ServiceManager, EventManager, Forms and other components.

Thanks for the status update on ZF3. Wouldn't another ZF3 status update
even for just 15 minutes be a good idea to keep people informed?

And for ZF2 some periodical information about the current status would
be very appreciated by the community as well, I think. There was a time
with frequent blog posts and we should get back there again.

Thanks and best regards,

Ralf
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Re: Release planning

Marco Pivetta


On 3 February 2014 06:47, Ralf Eggert <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Ben,

> Quite a few of the core developers are either busy with other stuff
> right now or working on ZF3. I'm not sure why there has been no
> maintenance release, but that may be have different reasons. I'm not
> sure where we are currently standing.
>
> There are quite a few ZF3 features done in different repositories by
> different users. Especially Bakura and Ocramius worked a lot on
> ServiceManager, EventManager, Forms and other components.

Thanks for the status update on ZF3. Wouldn't another ZF3 status update
even for just 15 minutes be a good idea to keep people informed?

Would love to do one of those, but we're really swamped over here right now :-(

And for ZF2 some periodical information about the current status would
be very appreciated by the community as well, I think. There was a time
with frequent blog posts and we should get back there again.

As far as I know, the current focus by the core team is getting Apigility 1.0.0 out of the door, which will probably slow down activity on the main repo for another bit.


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Re: Release planning

weierophinney
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ralf Eggert
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 6:17 AM, Ralf Eggert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> currently, I am quite busy with ZF2 training courses. Almost in every
> course these days one big question pop up by the participants:
>
>     How is the release cycle evolving in the next feature?
>     And when will ZF3 be released?
>
> When this question comes up, I always refer to the planned release cycle
> which stated monthly maintenance releases, minor release every 8 to 12
> weeks and major releases every 18 to 24 months.
>
> In the past, this schedule worked for quite a long time. The first
> release that took much longer was the 2.2.5 which took almost 10 weeks
> instead of one month. The 2.2.6 release is overdue since more than 3
> months today. And the 2.3.0 is overdue for almost 38 weeks.
>
> For the framework users which don't read the mailing lists or keep
> themselves informed with blogs, GitHub or conferences this looks like
> the ZF2 is loosing its momentum and they are asking if they should
> really stick to ZF2 if the development is slowing down.
>
> What do others think? Where is the momentum gone to?

Quite honestly, the momentum has gone into Apigility. The decision to
push this has meant pushing back release dates for ZF2, as we cannot
keep up with both simultaneously while we get Apigility to a stable
release. That said, Apigility's quick development cycle has been a
product of ZF2's stability and flexibility, and I think it will be a
nice showcase for what ZF2 brings to the table for PHP application
development.

That said, some updates:

- We will have a 1.12.4 in the coming weeks, bringing in a ton of
fixes for version 1, including updating the test suite to run on
PHPUnit 3.7+ (which will make it far easier to maintain!).
- We will have a 2.2.6 most likely by the end of the month, to be
either followed closely by, or coincide with...
- a 2.3.0 release.
- Once 2.3.0 is out the door, we can start the beta cycle on
Apigility, as we will be able to pin it on a stable version.

In practice, minor releases every quarter have turned out to be
problematic from a planning perspective due to the fact that most new
features are community-driven -- and thus are more likely to require
flexible scheduling due to availability of those developing the
features. As far as maintenance releases go, however, I would like to
get back to either monthly or bi-monthly following the 2.3.0 release,
as it does provide a more predictable upgrade cycle for users. With
Apigility going stable, this will be much easier to accommodate going
forward.

Regarding ZF3, once we have a stable Apigility release, we'll also
turn back to planning for that. I have some serious concerns with the
number of proposed backwards incompatible changes, and also do not
feel we have any compelling story for a new major version at this
point. Once I have time to breathe and start reviewing the proposed
changes in more depth, we can start figuring out what ZF3 might look
like, and the timeframe for it, if any.


--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: Release planning

Ralf Eggert
Hi Matthew,

thank you very much for the clarification of the current status of the
ZF development.

> Quite honestly, the momentum has gone into Apigility. The decision to
> push this has meant pushing back release dates for ZF2, as we cannot
> keep up with both simultaneously while we get Apigility to a stable
> release.

I understand that the ZF team at Zend can not keep up with both ZF2 and
Apigility. Maybe I am missing the point or maybe I really don't
understand the full benefits of Apigility, but what makes Apigility so
important that the development of ZF was almost freezed?

But maybe everybody knows it already and I am the only one who did not
see the light yet... ;-)

Thanks and best regards,

Ralf
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Re: Release planning

dolphin
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
At least two rules of good organization
1) Best of the Rest - change of activity
2) If there is a small project, the best - finish it. You can then go to the larger.
Both rules favor Apigility :)
Sorry for the spam:)
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Re: Release planning

Kyle Spraggs
In reply to this post by Ralf Eggert

Apigility, in my opinion, is the best php software release of 2013 (and 2014 thus far). If you haven't tried it or given API first development a shot I highly recommend taking Apigility for a test drive.

On Feb 10, 2014 3:05 PM, "Ralf Eggert" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Matthew,

thank you very much for the clarification of the current status of the
ZF development.

> Quite honestly, the momentum has gone into Apigility. The decision to
> push this has meant pushing back release dates for ZF2, as we cannot
> keep up with both simultaneously while we get Apigility to a stable
> release.

I understand that the ZF team at Zend can not keep up with both ZF2 and
Apigility. Maybe I am missing the point or maybe I really don't
understand the full benefits of Apigility, but what makes Apigility so
important that the development of ZF was almost freezed?

But maybe everybody knows it already and I am the only one who did not
see the light yet... ;-)

Thanks and best regards,

Ralf
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Re: Release planning

localheinz
Hello Ralf,


Apigility, in my opinion, is the best php software release of 2013 (and 2014 thus far). If you haven't tried it or given API first development a shot I highly recommend taking Apigility for a test drive.


As Kyle suggests, building APIs is the future that's already there - a lot of people are building thick clients that connect to APIs, just as apps tailored for specific mobile OS.

Haven't heard of "API first", to be honest, but I think it's an appropriate term when taking a backend developer's stance. It fits in with "Mobile first" - or even "Offline first" - development approaches. 



Best regards,

Andreas
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Re: Release planning

Ralf Eggert
Hi Andreas and Kyle,

please don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the work on Apigility and
I like the software as well. It is a very cool show case for the
strengths of the ZF2.

But, and I am afraid there is a but, I really think the current
situation is very dangerous for the future of ZF2/ZF3.

During the last couple of weeks, I got a lot of calls, notes, mails and
comments from friends, colleagues and customers which use the ZF2 in
their projects and are really concerned about the frameworks future. The
last release was long ago and people feel left alone and think that the
current situation might be the beginning of the end of the ZF2. The
project looks a little stale compared to other frameworks in these days.
I always reply that this is just a temporary phase and the upcoming
ZF2/ZF3 releases will be another huge step for the community. But I do
notice the disbelief in the reactions.

But maybe it is just the little German ZF2 community who thinks that the
current situation might be a problem, and everything is fine for
everybody else in the ZF2 world? If that is the truth, I will shut up
now and wait for the near future. :-)

Thanks and best regards,

Ralf
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Re: Release planning

Vincent BLANCHON
+1 with Ralf

"The project looks a little stale compared to other frameworks in these days."

One of the problems is Zend Technologies.
Zend Technologies doesn't care about Zend Framework, they earn money thanks to the notoriety of zend framework (training, zend studio, etc.) but few things are made to help the community ...
And now, because a marketing strategy, they launch Apigility (I think this project useless, just my thought) and the Zend Framework project is blocked : https://github.com/zendframework/zf2/pulls 152 PR ... nothing happens ...




Vincent BLANCHON
Expert PHP & Zend Framework


2014-02-18 8:29 GMT+11:00 Ralf Eggert <[hidden email]>:
Hi Andreas and Kyle,

please don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the work on Apigility and
I like the software as well. It is a very cool show case for the
strengths of the ZF2.

But, and I am afraid there is a but, I really think the current
situation is very dangerous for the future of ZF2/ZF3.

During the last couple of weeks, I got a lot of calls, notes, mails and
comments from friends, colleagues and customers which use the ZF2 in
their projects and are really concerned about the frameworks future. The
last release was long ago and people feel left alone and think that the
current situation might be the beginning of the end of the ZF2. The
project looks a little stale compared to other frameworks in these days.
I always reply that this is just a temporary phase and the upcoming
ZF2/ZF3 releases will be another huge step for the community. But I do
notice the disbelief in the reactions.

But maybe it is just the little German ZF2 community who thinks that the
current situation might be a problem, and everything is fine for
everybody else in the ZF2 world? If that is the truth, I will shut up
now and wait for the near future. :-)

Thanks and best regards,

Ralf

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Re: Release planning

franz de leon

@vincent although i agree that zf was somewhat set back with release. i dont think its fare to accuse the zf folks that they do not care about the project. apigility after all relies on zf2

On Feb 17, 2014 5:06 PM, "Vincent BLANCHON" <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 with Ralf

"The project looks a little stale compared to other frameworks in these days."

One of the problems is Zend Technologies.
Zend Technologies doesn't care about Zend Framework, they earn money thanks to the notoriety of zend framework (training, zend studio, etc.) but few things are made to help the community ...
And now, because a marketing strategy, they launch Apigility (I think this project useless, just my thought) and the Zend Framework project is blocked : https://github.com/zendframework/zf2/pulls 152 PR ... nothing happens ...




Vincent BLANCHON
Expert PHP & Zend Framework


2014-02-18 8:29 GMT+11:00 Ralf Eggert <[hidden email]>:
Hi Andreas and Kyle,

please don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the work on Apigility and
I like the software as well. It is a very cool show case for the
strengths of the ZF2.

But, and I am afraid there is a but, I really think the current
situation is very dangerous for the future of ZF2/ZF3.

During the last couple of weeks, I got a lot of calls, notes, mails and
comments from friends, colleagues and customers which use the ZF2 in
their projects and are really concerned about the frameworks future. The
last release was long ago and people feel left alone and think that the
current situation might be the beginning of the end of the ZF2. The
project looks a little stale compared to other frameworks in these days.
I always reply that this is just a temporary phase and the upcoming
ZF2/ZF3 releases will be another huge step for the community. But I do
notice the disbelief in the reactions.

But maybe it is just the little German ZF2 community who thinks that the
current situation might be a problem, and everything is fine for
everybody else in the ZF2 world? If that is the truth, I will shut up
now and wait for the near future. :-)

Thanks and best regards,

Ralf

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Re: Release planning

David Muir-2
In reply to this post by Ralf Eggert
On 18/02/14 08:29, Ralf Eggert wrote:

> Hi Andreas and Kyle,
>
> please don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the work on Apigility and
> I like the software as well. It is a very cool show case for the
> strengths of the ZF2.
>
> But, and I am afraid there is a but, I really think the current
> situation is very dangerous for the future of ZF2/ZF3.
>
> During the last couple of weeks, I got a lot of calls, notes, mails and
> comments from friends, colleagues and customers which use the ZF2 in
> their projects and are really concerned about the frameworks future. The
> last release was long ago and people feel left alone and think that the
> current situation might be the beginning of the end of the ZF2. The
> project looks a little stale compared to other frameworks in these days.
> I always reply that this is just a temporary phase and the upcoming
> ZF2/ZF3 releases will be another huge step for the community. But I do
> notice the disbelief in the reactions.
>
> But maybe it is just the little German ZF2 community who thinks that the
> current situation might be a problem, and everything is fine for
> everybody else in the ZF2 world? If that is the truth, I will shut up
> now and wait for the near future. :-)
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
> Ralf

I've noticed the slow-down too. I wasn't too concerned because of
Christmas holidays. I figured things would slow down for a bit, and pick
up again. What worries me the most is the lack of bug-fix updates.
Hoping to see 2.2.6 soon.

Cheers,
David
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Re: Release planning

Stefano Torresi
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Re: Release planning

Ralf Eggert
In reply to this post by Vincent BLANCHON
Hi Vincent,

> One of the problems is Zend Technologies.
> Zend Technologies doesn't care about Zend Framework, they earn money
> thanks to the notoriety of zend framework (training, zend studio, etc.)
> but few things are made to help the community ...

I think you are really wrong about this. If Zend Technologies wouldn't
care about it, they would stop working on it at all. Matthew and his
team and all other contributors are doing a great job to provide the
framework that fits my needs the best.

My criticism was just about the fact, that currently it takes too long
for new releases. I would have loved to see at least an release every
six or eight weeks while the team is working on Apigility to keep the
momentum flowing.

Thanks and best regards,

Ralf

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Re: Release planning

Spabby
Matthew has explained and said both 1 and 2 will have a release shortly. Why is this thread still being moaned on?

Gary


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Ralf Eggert <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Vincent,

> One of the problems is Zend Technologies.
> Zend Technologies doesn't care about Zend Framework, they earn money
> thanks to the notoriety of zend framework (training, zend studio, etc.)
> but few things are made to help the community ...

I think you are really wrong about this. If Zend Technologies wouldn't
care about it, they would stop working on it at all. Matthew and his
team and all other contributors are doing a great job to provide the
framework that fits my needs the best.

My criticism was just about the fact, that currently it takes too long
for new releases. I would have loved to see at least an release every
six or eight weeks while the team is working on Apigility to keep the
momentum flowing.

Thanks and best regards,

Ralf


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Re: Release planning

weierophinney
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ralf Eggert
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Ralf Eggert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> thank you very much for the clarification of the current status of the
> ZF development.
>
>> Quite honestly, the momentum has gone into Apigility. The decision to
>> push this has meant pushing back release dates for ZF2, as we cannot
>> keep up with both simultaneously while we get Apigility to a stable
>> release.
>
> I understand that the ZF team at Zend can not keep up with both ZF2 and
> Apigility. Maybe I am missing the point or maybe I really don't
> understand the full benefits of Apigility, but what makes Apigility so
> important that the development of ZF was almost freezed?

It's a temporary freeze, as getting Apigility to a stable release has
a very finite, fixed timeframe.

Why Apigility? Several reasons:

- More and more "web development" is happening API-first. The reasons
for this are numerous, but with systems integration and mobile
platform development being the primary factors. If you're not doing
API-first yet, you will be soon.
- We're also seeing a trend with web development that focuses on
separation of the UI layer from the server-side in a much cleaner
manner; think of it as taking separation of concerns to the next
level. A ton of tools exist for front-end development now that make it
far easier for UI teams to work in isolation from the server-side --
assuming that the server-side can provide web services for them. So,
we're back to APIs.
- In terms of ZF2, let's be honest: there's not a ton of
differentiation between the v2 frameworks, and all of them are
absurdly difficult for newcomers to learn as they focus on advanced
architectural designs. Eventing systems, inversion of
control/dependency injection, etc., are very, very tough concepts. Any
system that can make diving into these frameworks simpler should be
considered. Apigility actually addresses the learning curve a ton:
developers only need to know how to fill in a controller (RPC) or a
Resource object (REST) at first in order to start building an API.
When they want to add server-side HTML generation, they can learn
about the PhpRenderer. When they want to learn about DI and/or sharing
services between objects, they can learn about the ServiceManager.
When they need to alter the workflow of Apigility -- say, to add
custom authentication or authorization, or custom error handling --
they can learn about the EventManager. The point is, Apigility allows
them to get started quickly, and gradually learn more as they need it,
versus diving head first into the deep-end of the pool.

There are some more technical reasons as well:

- By writing application-level code, we're finding areas of ZF2 that
could be improved, or may be missing entirely, and pushing those
changes upstream to ZF2 itself. This means Apigility is helping
IMPROVE ZF2. :)
- We're also getting some high-quality, flexible modules into the
ecosystem via the zfcampus organization. This means we now have
first-class application concepts such as "development mode", content
negotiation, authentication, authorization, validation, and more --
which you can opt-in to by adding the appropriate modules. This is a
boon to the ZF2 ecosystem.

The bottom line is that Apigility is helping us improve ZF2 and the
ZF2 ecosystem, which is why we were willing to put ZF2 maintenance on
the back-burner for a few months -- because the overall improvements
outweigh the delays.

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
12