Noob Questions. Please help.

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Noob Questions. Please help.

lordali
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Hi,

I am new to ZF. Hoping to learn it but need some verifications.

Zend Framework
  This is open source framework which is only needed to make Zend Web Projects. Right?

Zend Server (Very expensive)
  This is application server which is not required for the project. Its just application server like Apache. If you have Apache configured than don't need Zend Server. Right?

Zend Studio
  This is IDE to develop Zend Projects. Its not free. Instead we can use NETBEANS or PHPDesigner using Zend Framework to develop Zend Projects using above IDE's. Right?

Onething which is important to ask is.
Do we need to install Zend Frame on the Server/Shared Host in order my projects to run?

Thanks

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Re: Noob Questions. Please help.

David Muir
lordali wrote
Hi,

I am new to ZF. Hoping to learn it but need some verifications.

Zend Framework
  This is open source framework which is only needed to make Zend Web Projects. Right?
What are Zend Web Projects?

Zend Framework is a library of PHP components including a full MVC stack.

lordali wrote
Zend Server (Very expensive)
  This is application server which is not required for the project. Its just application server like Apache. If you have Apache configured than don't need Zend Server. Right?
Zend Server is a LAMP stack with extra doodads. There's a free community version, but I've never tried it. It is not related to Zend Framework.

lordali wrote
Zend Studio
  This is IDE to develop Zend Projects. Its not free. Instead we can use NETBEANS or PHPDesigner using Zend Framework to develop Zend Projects using above IDE's. Right?
Zend Studio is a souped up version of PDT for Eclipse. You can use just about anything to write PHP.  It is also not related to Zend Framework although it does have some extra support for it.

lordali wrote
Onething which is important to ask is.
Do we need to install Zend Frame on the Server/Shared Host in order my projects to run?
How would you expect to use it without having it on the server? :-P


Cheers,
David

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Re: Noob Questions. Please help.

lordali
Thanks David for the reply.

Zend Web Project meaning web project made with zend framework.

David Muir wrote
How would you expect to use it without having it on the server? :-P
Hmm. Like codeIgniter (MVC) doesn't need anything to install on the server for its projects to work.

Installation on the server will limit shared hosting providers and if project made and delivered than client needs to find host that support Zend. Don't you think its the problem? . Just asking
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Re: Noob Questions. Please help.

Marco Pivetta
Zend Framework does not need anything more than PHP 5.2 to work, so you can
just download it, upload it to your project via FTP and start "playing" with
it ;)
Marco Pivetta
@Ocramius <http://twitter.com/Ocramius>
http://marco-pivetta.com



On 11 April 2011 15:26, lordali <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks David for the reply.
>
> Zend Web Project meaning web project made with zend framework.
>
>
> David Muir wrote:
> >
> >
> > How would you expect to use it without having it on the server? :-P
> >
> >
>
> Hmm. Like codeIgniter (MVC) doesn't need anything to install on the server
> for its projects to work.
>
> Installation on the server will limit shared hosting providers and if
> project made and delivered than client needs to find host that support
> Zend.
> Don't you think its the problem? . Just asking
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/Noob-Questions-Please-help-tp3441523p3441970.html
> Sent from the Zend Framework mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: Noob Questions. Please help.

Wil Moore III
In reply to this post by lordali
lordali wrote
I am new to ZF. Hoping to learn it but need some verifications.
Hi there. Are you only new to ZF or web development in general. I would like to be sure so I can base further clarifications around this knowledge.

lordali wrote
  This is open source framework which is only needed to make Zend Web Projects. Right?
FYI, it would be better to not end each question with "Right?" in big bold letters :). A simple question mark "?" would suffice.

Yes, Zend Framework is open source, and like any other open source code, you should double-check that the license is acceptable for your projects/organization.

You mentioned "Zend Web Projects"...Zend Framework can be used to build web applications, web sites, web applications that generate web sites, console applications, web services, or anything else you can build with PHP.

lordali wrote
Zend Server (Very expensive)
  This is application server which is not required for the project. Its just application server like Apache. If you have Apache configured than don't need Zend Server. Right?
You assertion isn't quite right actually.
Zend Server does include Apache (A web server, not an application server) but also includes Zend's (Zend is a company that contributes to PHP and provides Zend Framework) build of PHP as a binary which you can use instead of compiling your own version of PHP or instead of using your Linux distribution's version of PHP.

There is a free version and it is actually production quality...from what I've experienced, it is more production ready than the stuff you'd get via your linux distribution. The only thing that _might_ be better is compiling your own, but that is a lot of work to get right and a lot of work to maintain. I suggest you use Zend Server CE (free version) if possible.

lordali wrote
Zend Studio
  This is IDE to develop Zend Projects. Its not free. Instead we can use NETBEANS or PHPDesigner using Zend Framework to develop Zend Projects using above IDE's. Right?
If you need an IDE, I suggest Netbeans or PHPStorm. If you don't _need_ an IDE, I suggest vim or even emacs. I personally flip back and forth between Vim (80%) and PHPStorm (20%).

lordali wrote
One-thing which is important to ask is.
Do we need to install Zend Frame on the Server/Shared Host in order my projects to run?
Zend Server generally "installs" Zend Framework into your include_path on the server; however, I generally clear out the include path, keeping only the path to PEAR (for phpunit) so I can use the ZF from my project's "lib/vendor" directory.
--
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Re: Noob Questions. Please help.

lordali
Thanks for the explanations.

Actually I have 4+ years of web development experience in ASP.NET. I am new to PHP and trying to learn it. I am looking for MVC framework to reduce learning curve and save development time. Heared about Zend and wanted try it.

Is there any sample application with CRUD functionality which I can use to learn Zend framework?
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Re: Noob Questions. Please help.

David Mintz-3
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:56 PM, lordali <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks for the explanations.
>
> Actually I have 4+ years of web development experience in ASP.NET. I am
> new
> to PHP and trying to learn it. I am looking for MVC framework to reduce
> learning curve and save development time. Heared about Zend and wanted try
> it.
>
> Is there any sample application with CRUD functionality which I can use to
> learn Zend framework?
>
>
http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/learning.quickstart.html might be
helpful.

--
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Re: Noob Questions. Please help.

Wil Moore III
In reply to this post by lordali
lordali wrote
Thanks for the explanations.
No problem.

lordali wrote
Actually I have 4+ years of web development experience in ASP.NET. I am new to PHP and trying to learn it. I am looking for MVC framework to reduce learning curve and save development time. Heared about Zend and wanted try it.
Cool; was it web-forms based or MVC?

lordali wrote
Is there any sample application with CRUD functionality which I can use to learn Zend framework?
Not that I know of; however, symfony has a sample application called Jobeet:
http://www.symfony-project.org/jobeet/1_4/Doctrine/en/

It won't teach you Zend Framework, but it will provide insight into the structure of a PHP MVC application. It is for their 1.x framework and hasn't yet been updated for version 2.x.
--
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Best Practices for Working with Open-Source Developers
http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch19s02.html

Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting:
http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html

DO NOT TOP-POST and DO trim your replies:
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Re: Noob Questions. Please help.

Simon Walter
In reply to this post by Wil Moore III
On 14/04/2011 05:59, Wil Moore III wrote:
>
> As for Zend Server, they have optimized it to death and provide a very
> solid, stable, and well tested (people pay a lot for the commercial
> version) version. Not to mention, they have quite good documentation
> so I see plenty of benefit here.
>

My concern is updates. This is my main reason behind using a distro's
package management. Upgrades are easy across many machines. However,
sometimes the maintainers break things. Depending on the distro,
sometimes they destroy things. So I'm keen on investigating other
deployment methods if they are stable, secure, and maintainable.


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Re: Noob Questions. Please help.

Wil Moore III
Simon Walter wrote
My concern is updates. This is my main reason behind using a distro's
Installing
aptitude install zend-server-ce-php-5.3
http://files.zend.com/help/Zend-Server-Community-Edition/deb_installation.htm

Upgrading Zend Server Community Edition
http://files.zend.com/help/Zend-Server-Community-Edition/deb_installation.htm#MiniTOCBookMark6
--
Wil Moore III

Best Practices for Working with Open-Source Developers
http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch19s02.html

Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting:
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DO NOT TOP-POST and DO trim your replies:
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Zend Server, Zend Optimizer, PHP6, and APC

Simon Walter
After discussing a bit about Zend Server, I'm particularly interested in
what will happen to the product after the release of PHP6. Perhaps that
is so far off, that there is no use thinking about it.

APC is supposed to be integrated in the PHP core. Where does that put
Zend Optimizer WRT Zend Server? Will it be dropped?

Simon

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Re: Zend Server, Zend Optimizer, PHP6, and APC

weierophinney
Administrator
-- Simon Walter <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Monday, 18 April 2011, 03:27 PM +0900):
> After discussing a bit about Zend Server, I'm particularly
> interested in what will happen to the product after the release of
> PHP6. Perhaps that is so far off, that there is no use thinking
> about it.

PHP6 in its original incarnation (refactoring PHP to have native Unicode
support) is currently dead. Currently planned is a PHP 5.<Next> (which
could be either 5.4 or 6.0). I know the Zend Server team has been quick
to produce new versions that adopt new minor versions of PHP (they had a
5.3 version available very quickly following, if not in parallel to, the
official 5.3.0 release); I suspect this will be true whatever the next
minor or major version of PHP might be.

> APC is supposed to be integrated in the PHP core. Where does that
> put Zend Optimizer WRT Zend Server? Will it be dropped?

Probably not.

While APC would be shipped by default, you would still need to opt-in to
its functionality. As such, there's still room for other op-code
caches. Optimizer differs quite a bit from APC and offers different
features -- and different performance. As such, I'm sure it will
continue to be incorporated in Zend Server.

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Re: Zend Server, Zend Optimizer, PHP6, and APC

Simon Walter
On 18/04/2011 23:04, Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote:

> -- Simon Walter<[hidden email]>  wrote
> (on Monday, 18 April 2011, 03:27 PM +0900):
>> After discussing a bit about Zend Server, I'm particularly
>> interested in what will happen to the product after the release of
>> PHP6. Perhaps that is so far off, that there is no use thinking
>> about it.
> PHP6 in its original incarnation (refactoring PHP to have native Unicode
> support) is currently dead. Currently planned is a PHP 5.<Next>  (which
> could be either 5.4 or 6.0). I know the Zend Server team has been quick
> to produce new versions that adopt new minor versions of PHP (they had a
> 5.3 version available very quickly following, if not in parallel to, the
> official 5.3.0 release); I suspect this will be true whatever the next
> minor or major version of PHP might be.

Interesting to know about scrapping of PHP6. I hope Unicode support will
make it into a future PHP version.

>> APC is supposed to be integrated in the PHP core. Where does that
>> put Zend Optimizer WRT Zend Server? Will it be dropped?
> Probably not.
>
> While APC would be shipped by default, you would still need to opt-in to
> its functionality. As such, there's still room for other op-code
> caches. Optimizer differs quite a bit from APC and offers different
> features -- and different performance. As such, I'm sure it will
> continue to be incorporated in Zend Server.

This is probably the most interesting part of the Zend Server to me. As
such, I'll need to look into doing some performance tests.

Thanks for the info!

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Re: Zend Server, Zend Optimizer, PHP6, and APC

weierophinney
Administrator
-- Simon Walter <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Tuesday, 19 April 2011, 10:25 AM +0900):

> On 18/04/2011 23:04, Matthew Weier O'Phinney wrote:
> > -- Simon Walter<[hidden email]>  wrote
> > (on Monday, 18 April 2011, 03:27 PM +0900):
> > > After discussing a bit about Zend Server, I'm particularly
> > > interested in what will happen to the product after the release of
> > > PHP6. Perhaps that is so far off, that there is no use thinking
> > > about it.
> > PHP6 in its original incarnation (refactoring PHP to have native Unicode
> > support) is currently dead. Currently planned is a PHP 5.<Next>  (which
> > could be either 5.4 or 6.0). I know the Zend Server team has been quick
> > to produce new versions that adopt new minor versions of PHP (they had a
> > 5.3 version available very quickly following, if not in parallel to, the
> > official 5.3.0 release); I suspect this will be true whatever the next
> > minor or major version of PHP might be.
>
> Interesting to know about scrapping of PHP6. I hope Unicode support
> will make it into a future PHP version.

The approach that was being used simply required too much work and
changing too much code to make it feasible; a large amount of code was
done initially, but it took years to move the conversion even a few more
percentage points towards completion. Basically, Rasmus and some of the
other core developers at a certain point recognized it would never be
complete with that approach, and scrapped it until somebody comes up
with a better idea. This is allowing new features to finally creep into
the language at a faster pace, which benefits all of us in the end --
though I, too, would like to see full Unicode support some day.

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
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