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Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

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Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

Benjamin Eberlei-2
Hello everyone,

2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for the following reasons:

1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the way to go here)
3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than the jQuery required alone.

Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this extension (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to run into the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).

I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that this means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.

greetings,
Benjamin
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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

Dolf Schimmel
I agree with Benjamin here. Though I think that the Zend_Dojo allows
for more extensibility than Zendx_Jquery.

However, if we decide to drop ZendX_Jquery (if not, who'll maintain
it?), I think we at least should write some decent documentation on
how one should decently implement Js with ZF.

Dolf
--Freeaqingme

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Benjamin Eberlei <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for the following reasons:
>
> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
> 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the way to go here)
> 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
> 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than the jQuery required alone.
>
> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this extension (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to run into the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
>
> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that this means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>
> greetings,
> Benjamin
>
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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

paboivin
Agree with both Dolf and Benjamin.

On 17 January 2011 13:50, Dolf Schimmel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree with Benjamin here. Though I think that the Zend_Dojo allows
> for more extensibility than Zendx_Jquery.
>
> However, if we decide to drop ZendX_Jquery (if not, who'll maintain
> it?), I think we at least should write some decent documentation on
> how one should decently implement Js with ZF.
>
> Dolf
> --Freeaqingme
>
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Benjamin Eberlei <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery
> components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do
> maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for
> the following reasons:
> >
> > 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass
> heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
> > 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the
> way to go here)
> > 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite
> your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
> > 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than
> the jQuery required alone.
> >
> > Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this
> extension (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to
> run into the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
> >
> > I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that
> this means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over
> maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
> >
> > greetings,
> > Benjamin
> >
>



--
Paul A. Boivin
web engineer / consultant
www.blink-tech.com

USA/Canada: (877) 832-1641
International: (941) 306-3613
Fax: (941) 531-5991
Skype: paul-boivin
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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

Jurian Sluiman-4
In reply to this post by Benjamin Eberlei-2
On Monday 17 Jan 2011 19:47:00 Benjamin Eberlei wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery components/integration
> into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do maintained the
> jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for the following
> reasons:
>
> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass
> heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic. 2. It
> does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the way to
> go here) 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to
> rewrite your app using proper jquery/javscript code. 4. The PHP code
> required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than the jQuery
> required alone.
>
> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this extension
> (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to run
> into the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
>
> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that this
> means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over
> maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>
> greetings,
> Benjamin

While I understand your reasoning I think it is a pity to completely remove
the jQuery component. I have a few examples where the benefits from the view
helpers were great and, if ZendX_jQuery will be removed, I need to write them
myself.

1) A page does not always need jQuery. Because this is mostly determined in a
view script, but rendered in a layout, the enabling of jQuery is really
useful. Only on pages where jQuery is needed, you use:
$this->jQuery()->enable().

2a) The simplicity of jQuery UI in Zend_Forms is in several cases really good.
I created a form with tabs where each tab represented a specific language.
Enabling 2 decorator and set 2 jQueryParams did it all.

2b) As with point 2a, creation of a date-picker can be completely done in php.
Just create a date-picker element and you're ready to go. Otherwise, I need
additional code in my view to transform a form element into a date-picker.

I understand that misuse can harm the application's performance, but there are
numerous benefits where otherwise I need to create my own, almost identical,
view helpers.

Perhaps it's a better idea to look what parts of the component are used often
and helps the developer with its code. Those parts can be refactored into a
new Zend_jQuery component for ZF2.0, where the other parts can be dropped.

Regards, Jurian
--
Jurian Sluiman
Soflomo - http://soflomo.com
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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

kachayev
Hi guys! I aslo don't like much PHP code which create JS
opportunities, but I have to mention two cases, when its realy
necessary:

1. form and elements decorators (UI)
2. form JS validation logic (build from elements' validators)

I think, that it is possible to refactor this component with using
special JQuery plugins - this will give us facility to extend or
reimplement/reuse JS functionality (but I don't know, is it possible
to include in ZF some part of JS code).

--
Kind regards,
Alexey S. Kachayev, Senior PHP Developer
Cogniance Inc.
----------
Skype: kachayev
Tel: +380-996692092
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Re: [fw-general] Re: [zf-contributors] Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

Jigal Sanders
In reply to this post by Dolf Schimmel
Please don't discontinue support for jQuery/
I think there are many people who use it

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Dolf Schimmel <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I agree with Benjamin here. Though I think that the Zend_Dojo allows
> for more extensibility than Zendx_Jquery.
>
> However, if we decide to drop ZendX_Jquery (if not, who'll maintain
> it?), I think we at least should write some decent documentation on
> how one should decently implement Js with ZF.
>
> Dolf
> --Freeaqingme
>
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Benjamin Eberlei <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery
> components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do
> maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for
> the following reasons:
> >
> > 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass
> heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
> > 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the
> way to go here)
> > 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite
> your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
> > 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than
> the jQuery required alone.
> >
> > Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this
> extension (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to
> run into the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
> >
> > I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that
> this means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over
> maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
> >
> > greetings,
> > Benjamin
> >
>



--
Met vriendelijke groet,

Jigal Sanders
A.J. Ernststraat 739
1082 LK Amsterdam
Mobiel: 06-42111489
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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

guyht
In reply to this post by Benjamin Eberlei-2
I agree with this.  For any application that requires more than a few lines of JavaScript, the JS should be kept in separate 'javascript' files.


On 17 Jan 2011, at 18:47, Benjamin Eberlei wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for the following reasons:
>
> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
> 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the way to go here)
> 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
> 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than the jQuery required alone.
>
> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this extension (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to run into the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
>
> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that this means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>
> greetings,
> Benjamin

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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

Phil Brown
In reply to this post by Benjamin Eberlei-2
Never used ZendX_Jquery for the exact reasons Benjamin's stated as reasons
to abandon it, so that's an "aye" vote from me.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Benjamin Eberlei <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery components/integration
> into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do maintained the jQuery
> component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for the following reasons:
>
> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass
> heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
> 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the way
> to go here)
> 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite your
> app using proper jquery/javscript code.
> 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than
> the jQuery required alone.
>
> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this extension
> (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to run into
> the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
>
> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that this
> means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over
> maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>
> greetings,
> Benjamin
>



--
Phil Brown
Web Applications Developer
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Building the Documentation

guyht
What is the current method of building the documentation for ZF2?

I can build the documentation fine using the following :
$ autoconf
$ ./configure
$ make


But I have seen mentions of using PhD instead? But cant seem to find any instructions.

Thanks
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Re: Building the Documentation

weierophinney
Administrator
-- Guy Halford-Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Monday, 17 January 2011, 10:48 PM +0000):
> What is the current method of building the documentation for ZF2?
>
> I can build the documentation fine using the following :
> $ autoconf
> $ ./configure
> $ make
>
> But I have seen mentions of using PhD instead? But cant seem to find any instructions.

For purposes of testing the documentation build, the above is correct
for now, though outdated.

We use PhD to build the documentation in ZF1 currently, but have to do
so with some custom scripts that transfer the docbook from version 4 to
version 5, and then do some rewriting before we can process the
documentation.

For some information on it:

    http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/New-capabilities-via-PhD-tp1460442p1460442.html

Ping me if you need some pointers.

One item we should consider for ZF2 is making the DocBook DB5 compliant.
This will simplify PhD usage, but require updating every single file
(which we can do using find+sed).

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: [fw-general] Re: [zf-contributors] Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

michael.heuberger
In reply to this post by Jigal Sanders
I agree, please don't drop the support for jQuery. It's the number #1 JS
library nowadays!

Thx,
Michael

--

On 18/01/2011 11:08 a.m., Jigal sanders wrote:

> Please don't discontinue support for jQuery/
> I think there are many people who use it
>
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Dolf Schimmel<[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> I agree with Benjamin here. Though I think that the Zend_Dojo allows
>> for more extensibility than Zendx_Jquery.
>>
>> However, if we decide to drop ZendX_Jquery (if not, who'll maintain
>> it?), I think we at least should write some decent documentation on
>> how one should decently implement Js with ZF.
>>
>> Dolf
>> --Freeaqingme
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 7:47 PM, Benjamin Eberlei<[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery
>> components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do
>> maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for
>> the following reasons:
>>> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass
>> heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
>>> 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the
>> way to go here)
>>> 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite
>> your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
>>> 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than
>> the jQuery required alone.
>>> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this
>> extension (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to
>> run into the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
>>> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that
>> this means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over
>> maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>>> greetings,
>>> Benjamin
>>>
>
>

--

Binary Kitchen
Michael Heuberger
4c Dunbar Road
Mt Eden
Auckland 1024
(New Zealand)

Mobile (text only) ...  +64 21 261 89 81
Email ................  [hidden email]
Website ..............  http://www.binarykitchen.com

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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

Ralph Schindler-2
In reply to this post by Benjamin Eberlei-2
I tend to agree here, with a few caveats (as I mentioned on IRC).  I
like the few conveniences that are offered in the bootstrapping.  Yes, I
know its just a few lines, but the connection it makes to the view layer
and the layout layer is transparent and convienient enough to keep.

Depending on what Zend\Form looks like, it might make sense to revisit
this when Zend\Form is formalized and available.  Some of the value-add
that is in the Zend_Jquery component comes in the form of the helpers
and form elements.

Sure, you can argue that if you are doing Jquery you should be immersed
inside Javascript, but there is also something to be said for the
automatic wiring that is provided by the Zend_Jquery (and Zend_Dojo)
component.

There is a strong use case for keeping Zend_Jquery in the small-project
/ sprinkle some Javascript in / just-get-it-done use cases.  That said,
it makes sense to evaluate this again after MVC and forms are done in 2.0.

I am sure we'll have no problem finding someone who loves Jquery enough
to give this component some attention should the community decide to
keep it around.

-ralph

On 1/17/11 12:47 PM, Benjamin Eberlei wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for the following reasons:
>
> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
> 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the way to go here)
> 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
> 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than the jQuery required alone.
>
> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this extension (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to run into the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
>
> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that this means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>
> greetings,
> Benjamin
>
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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

Phil Brown
In terms of client-side form validation, we could look at how
ASP.NET<http://asp.net/> MVC3
does it.

They set HTML5 custom data attributes (for data types, ranges, regular
expressions, etc) and use a generic jQuery plugin to make use of those
attributes.

That way you can embed your validation logic using the form element markup
without muddying things up with JavaScript written by PHP.

Just a thought. Would be a significant amount of work for the
Zend\Form\Decorator\* / Zend\View\Helper\Form\* maintainers.

Cheers,
Phil

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Ralph Schindler
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> I tend to agree here, with a few caveats (as I mentioned on IRC).  I like
> the few conveniences that are offered in the bootstrapping.  Yes, I know its
> just a few lines, but the connection it makes to the view layer and the
> layout layer is transparent and convienient enough to keep.
>
> Depending on what Zend\Form looks like, it might make sense to revisit this
> when Zend\Form is formalized and available.  Some of the value-add that is
> in the Zend_Jquery component comes in the form of the helpers and form
> elements.
>
> Sure, you can argue that if you are doing Jquery you should be immersed
> inside Javascript, but there is also something to be said for the automatic
> wiring that is provided by the Zend_Jquery (and Zend_Dojo) component.
>
> There is a strong use case for keeping Zend_Jquery in the small-project /
> sprinkle some Javascript in / just-get-it-done use cases.  That said, it
> makes sense to evaluate this again after MVC and forms are done in 2.0.
>
> I am sure we'll have no problem finding someone who loves Jquery enough to
> give this component some attention should the community decide to keep it
> around.
>
> -ralph
>
>
> On 1/17/11 12:47 PM, Benjamin Eberlei wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery
>> components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do
>> maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for
>> the following reasons:
>>
>> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass
>> heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
>> 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the
>> way to go here)
>> 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite
>> your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
>> 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than
>> the jQuery required alone.
>>
>> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this extension
>> (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to run into
>> the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
>>
>> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that this
>> means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over
>> maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>>
>> greetings,
>> Benjamin
>>
>>


--
Phil Brown
Web Applications Developer
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Re: [fw-general] Re: [zf-contributors] Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

ixti
In reply to this post by Phil Brown
I absolutely agree with point of Benjamin! And I can tell few reasons more
why this component should be abandoned :))


2011/1/17 Phil Brown <[hidden email]>:

> Never used ZendX_Jquery for the exact reasons Benjamin's stated as reasons
> to abandon it, so that's an "aye" vote from me.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 5:47 AM, Benjamin Eberlei <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery components/integration
>> into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do maintained the jQuery
>> component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for the following reasons:
>>
>> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass
>> heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
>> 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the way
>> to go here)
>> 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite your
>> app using proper jquery/javscript code.
>> 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than
>> the jQuery required alone.
>>
>> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this extension
>> (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to run into
>> the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
>>
>> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that this
>> means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over
>> maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>>
>> greetings,
>> Benjamin
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Phil Brown
> Web Applications Developer
>



--
Sincerely yours,
Aleksey V. Zapparov A.K.A. ixti
FSF Member #7118
Mobile Phone: +34 617 179 344
Homepage: http://www.ixti.ru
JID: [hidden email]

*Origin: Happy Hacking!
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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

Richard Tuin
In reply to this post by Ralph Schindler-2
I think Ralph has a valid point on the small project / just-get-it-done use
cases.
Like mentioned before, having javascript related components in the library
more or less defines a standard on how to incorporate javascript in
framework applications, which i believe is a good thing.

If continued, we have to look at the 4 problems Benjamin presented.
Providing extensibility and flexibility is important for the success of the
framework, and thus also for this component.


Greetings,

Richard

2011/1/18 Ralph Schindler <[hidden email]>

> I tend to agree here, with a few caveats (as I mentioned on IRC).  I like
> the few conveniences that are offered in the bootstrapping.  Yes, I know its
> just a few lines, but the connection it makes to the view layer and the
> layout layer is transparent and convienient enough to keep.
>
> Depending on what Zend\Form looks like, it might make sense to revisit this
> when Zend\Form is formalized and available.  Some of the value-add that is
> in the Zend_Jquery component comes in the form of the helpers and form
> elements.
>
> Sure, you can argue that if you are doing Jquery you should be immersed
> inside Javascript, but there is also something to be said for the automatic
> wiring that is provided by the Zend_Jquery (and Zend_Dojo) component.
>
> There is a strong use case for keeping Zend_Jquery in the small-project /
> sprinkle some Javascript in / just-get-it-done use cases.  That said, it
> makes sense to evaluate this again after MVC and forms are done in 2.0.
>
> I am sure we'll have no problem finding someone who loves Jquery enough to
> give this component some attention should the community decide to keep it
> around.
>
> -ralph
>
>
> On 1/17/11 12:47 PM, Benjamin Eberlei wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery
>> components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do
>> maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for
>> the following reasons:
>>
>> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass
>> heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
>> 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the
>> way to go here)
>> 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite
>> your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
>> 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than
>> the jQuery required alone.
>>
>> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this extension
>> (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to run into
>> the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
>>
>> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that this
>> means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over
>> maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>>
>> greetings,
>> Benjamin
>>
>>
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Re: Building the Documentation

guyht
In reply to this post by weierophinney
Ah, PhD is so much faster! Managed to get it working and build the documentation.

Re making the documentation DocBook 5 compliant:  This probably needs some further discussion but I think that it would be best to start using the newer DocBook version as it is very unlikely that the documentation will ever get upgraded to DocBook 5 in the future if it is not done now.  Can we not use some of the existing tools to update the older DocBook 4 files?


On 17 Jan, 2011,at 11:54 PM, Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]> wrote:

-- Guy Halford-Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Monday, 17 January 2011, 10:48 PM +0000):
> What is the current method of building the documentation for ZF2?
>
> I can build the documentation fine using the following :
> $ autoconf
> $ ./configure
> $ make
>
> But I have seen mentions of using PhD instead? But cant seem to find any instructions.

For purposes of testing the documentation build, the above is correct
for now, though outdated.

We use PhD to build the documentation in ZF1 currently, but have to do
so with some custom scripts that transfer the docbook from version 4 to
version 5, and then do some rewriting before we can process the
documentation.

For some information on it:

http://zend-framework-community.634137.n4.nabble.com/New-capabilities-via-PhD-tp1460442p1460442.html

Ping me if you need some pointers.

One item we should consider for ZF2 is making the DocBook DB5 compliant.
This will simplify PhD usage, but require updating every single file
(which we can do using find+sed).

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead | [hidden email]
Zend Framework | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc
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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

cbichis
In reply to this post by Benjamin Eberlei-2
Hello,

I would say is a bad idea to abandon JQuery due to fact there are
projects where is easier to automate the JQuery configuration directly
from PHP.

Of course, this is possible without the ZendX JQuery also, but would
make the us going back to plain PHP... Which means uglier code, aso.

Following the same logic, we don't need ZF, MVC, aso...


1. Is true only for some of the projects. The scope of the ZendX JQuery
would be to have a quick way to deploy jQuery... We don't do ZF to help
people learn JQuery or to make/not devs learn other technologies...

2&3. I don't think many peoples are using ZendX JQuery for this doing
heavy usage... ZendX JQuery is anyway a light component... Doesn't offer
the same indepth config ability as for Dojo...

4. In case automating the JQuery configuration (selecting jQuery
configuration from an admin panel by example) is needed dropping ZendX
JQuery would means lot of ugly code to write... Instead of cleanier
existing code...

Let's not forget about the forms case.

At the end i think is a matter of choice, i just feel is good if
developers have the choice, based on their skills and project scope to
use/not ZendX JQuery.

My 2 cents...

Cristian Bichis

> Hello everyone,
>
> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind radically. I do maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest to drop it for 2.0 for the following reasons:
>
> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the ass heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
> 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are the way to go here)
> 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to rewrite your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
> 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more than the jQuery required alone.
>
> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this extension (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage people to run into the wrong direction by using it (they will thank us later).
>
> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that this means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take over maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>
> greetings,
> Benjamin
>

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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

michael.heuberger
I can't agree more with Christian. The logic is wrong. To me it sounds
like people are trying to promote Dojo in favour for jQuery which isn't
right. jQuery is the most used JS API which is stated by Google itself.

My 50 cents ...
Michael H.

--

On 18/01/2011 11:07 p.m., Cristian Bichis wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I would say is a bad idea to abandon JQuery due to fact there are
> projects where is easier to automate the JQuery configuration directly
> from PHP.
>
> Of course, this is possible without the ZendX JQuery also, but would
> make the us going back to plain PHP... Which means uglier code, aso.
>
> Following the same logic, we don't need ZF, MVC, aso...
>
>
> 1. Is true only for some of the projects. The scope of the ZendX
> JQuery would be to have a quick way to deploy jQuery... We don't do ZF
> to help people learn JQuery or to make/not devs learn other
> technologies...
>
> 2&3. I don't think many peoples are using ZendX JQuery for this doing
> heavy usage... ZendX JQuery is anyway a light component... Doesn't
> offer the same indepth config ability as for Dojo...
>
> 4. In case automating the JQuery configuration (selecting jQuery
> configuration from an admin panel by example) is needed dropping ZendX
> JQuery would means lot of ugly code to write... Instead of cleanier
> existing code...
>
> Let's not forget about the forms case.
>
> At the end i think is a matter of choice, i just feel is good if
> developers have the choice, based on their skills and project scope to
> use/not ZendX JQuery.
>
> My 2 cents...
>
> Cristian Bichis
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> 2 years ago I was pretty sure of the Dojo and jQuery
>> components/integration into ZF. I have since changed my mind
>> radically. I do maintained the jQuery component but I would suggest
>> to drop it for 2.0 for the following reasons:
>>
>> 1. It encourages writing no JS code at all, this will bite you in the
>> ass heavily if you find out that you need to customize the jQuery logic.
>> 2. It does not encourage javascript code re-use (jQuery plugins are
>> the way to go here)
>> 3. Heavy usage causes technical debt, it becomes impossible to
>> rewrite your app using proper jquery/javscript code.
>> 4. The PHP code required to write "ZendX JQuery" code is often more
>> than the jQuery required alone.
>>
>> Since only people that don't know javascript "benefit" from this
>> extension (in the short run) I suggest to drop it not to encourage
>> people to run into the wrong direction by using it (they will thank
>> us later).
>>
>> I won't attempt to rewrite ZendX jQuery for 2.0 and i understand that
>> this means it will be dropped automatically. I suggest nobody to take
>> over maintenance for the previously discussed arguments.
>>
>> greetings,
>> Benjamin
>>
>

--

Binary Kitchen
Michael Heuberger
4c Dunbar Road
Mt Eden
Auckland 1024
(New Zealand)

Mobile (text only) ...  +64 21 261 89 81
Email ................  [hidden email]
Website ..............  http://www.binarykitchen.com

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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

denniswinter
> I can't agree more with Christian. The logic is wrong. To me it sounds like people are trying to promote Dojo in favour for jQuery which isn't right. jQuery is the most used JS API which is stated by Google itself.

No, it's not about promoting Dojo or to compromising jQuery!

Benjamin is just not willing to maintain it any longer and he suggests a drop of the CURRENT code.
If anyone is willing to take care of ZendX_Jquery, do so.

Whatever.
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Re: Discontinuing Maintenance of ZendX JQuery - Suggest drop for 2.0

cbichis

Overall, dropping JQuery support should also means dropping Dojo support
by the same reasons Benjamin listed. If that was the real reason (the 4
arguments).

If it's the case of not maintaining due to missing time/not wanting then
the reasons are different. Which is a good reason (which is easy to
understand, i signed for CLA but haven't had time to do the proposals i
wanted :( ).

So is matter only of real reason for dropping support...
>> I can't agree more with Christian. The logic is wrong. To me it sounds like people are trying to promote Dojo in favour for jQuery which isn't right. jQuery is the most used JS API which is stated by Google itself.
> No, it's not about promoting Dojo or to compromising jQuery!
>
> Benjamin is just not willing to maintain it any longer and he suggests a drop of the CURRENT code.
> If anyone is willing to take care of ZendX_Jquery, do so.
>
> Whatever.

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