Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

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Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

padraicb
In discussing mailing lists with someone, they noted we are all discussing ZF2
on a list called zf-contributors. I never really considered it before - but how
many here are not a "contributor"? Isn't this the entirely wrong place to be
having these discussions? Where's the non-contributor development mailing list?

Might I suggest we either take these ZF2 topics to zf-general (at least it will
get more attention then! :P) or designate a zf-development ML for future use.

Paddy

 Pádraic Brady

http://blog.astrumfutura.com
http://www.survivethedeepend.com
Zend Framework Community Review Team
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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

paboivin
I agree.


Paul A. Boivin
web engineer / consultant
www.blink-tech.com

USA/Canada: (877) 832-1641
International: (941) 306-3613
Fax: (941) 531-5991
Skype: paul-boivin



On 19 May 2011 09:08, Pádraic Brady <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In discussing mailing lists with someone, they noted we are all discussing
> ZF2
> on a list called zf-contributors. I never really considered it before - but
> how
> many here are not a "contributor"? Isn't this the entirely wrong place to
> be
> having these discussions? Where's the non-contributor development mailing
> list?
>
> Might I suggest we either take these ZF2 topics to zf-general (at least it
> will
> get more attention then! :P) or designate a zf-development ML for future
> use.
>
> Paddy
>
>  Pádraic Brady
>
> http://blog.astrumfutura.com
> http://www.survivethedeepend.com
> Zend Framework Community Review Team
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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

Dolf Schimmel
Disagree. There's way too much attention. Perhaps the name of this ml
should be different, like ZF-Development-Itself@, but imho that's a
matter of naming it.

Dolf

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Paul Boivin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree.
>
>
> Paul A. Boivin
> web engineer / consultant
> www.blink-tech.com
>
> USA/Canada: (877) 832-1641
> International: (941) 306-3613
> Fax: (941) 531-5991
> Skype: paul-boivin
>
>
>
> On 19 May 2011 09:08, Pádraic Brady <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> In discussing mailing lists with someone, they noted we are all discussing
>> ZF2
>> on a list called zf-contributors. I never really considered it before - but
>> how
>> many here are not a "contributor"? Isn't this the entirely wrong place to
>> be
>> having these discussions? Where's the non-contributor development mailing
>> list?
>>
>> Might I suggest we either take these ZF2 topics to zf-general (at least it
>> will
>> get more attention then! :P) or designate a zf-development ML for future
>> use.
>>
>> Paddy
>>
>>  Pádraic Brady
>>
>> http://blog.astrumfutura.com
>> http://www.survivethedeepend.com
>> Zend Framework Community Review Team
>

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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

H Glenn Hatfield
In reply to this post by padraicb
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Pádraic Brady <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Might I suggest we either take these ZF2 topics to zf-general (at least it
> will
> get more attention then! :P) or designate a zf-development ML for future
> use.
>

Do we know of people who would like to be involved in the process who
haven't known about this list? I think the list is easy to find for someone
who wants to be involved. I have not (yet) contributed to the project, but I
understand that this list is where the discussion happens regarding ZF
development.

I think the majority of the people subscribed to the other lists who are not
also subscribed to this list care less about _how_ ZF works and more _that_
ZF works. They don't want to get involved in a discussion on DI containers
or EventManagers. They want clear instructions on how ZF can help them solve
their problems.

Perhaps a message on the general list telling people about the discussions
happening here and on confluence would be good, but I don't see the need to
move the conversation.

H
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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

joelclermont
On May 19, 2011, at 8:54 AM, H Hatfield wrote:

> I have not (yet) contributed to the project, but I
> understand that this list is where the discussion happens regarding ZF
> development.
>
I'm the exact same way. I've contributed a couple small patches, but I still like monitoring this list to see the direction of development and being able to speak up as needed.

> I think the majority of the people subscribed to the other lists who are not
> also subscribed to this list care less about _how_ ZF works and more _that_
> ZF works. They don't want to get involved in a discussion on DI containers
> or EventManagers. They want clear instructions on how ZF can help them solve
> their problems.
>
> Perhaps a message on the general list telling people about the discussions
> happening here and on confluence would be good, but I don't see the need to
> move the conversation.

+1 on both of these points.

>
> H


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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

David Muir
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by H Glenn Hatfield
H Hatfield wrote
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Pádraic Brady <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Might I suggest we either take these ZF2 topics to zf-general (at least it
> will
> get more attention then! :P) or designate a zf-development ML for future
> use.
>

Do we know of people who would like to be involved in the process who
haven't known about this list? I think the list is easy to find for someone
who wants to be involved. I have not (yet) contributed to the project, but I
understand that this list is where the discussion happens regarding ZF
development.

I think the majority of the people subscribed to the other lists who are not
also subscribed to this list care less about _how_ ZF works and more _that_
ZF works. They don't want to get involved in a discussion on DI containers
or EventManagers. They want clear instructions on how ZF can help them solve
their problems.

Perhaps a message on the general list telling people about the discussions
happening here and on confluence would be good, but I don't see the need to
move the conversation.

H
The problem for me is Nabble. I probably should have signed up to the mailing list directly, but haven't gotten around to doing that. Nabble doesn't make any distinctions between the various lists, so I have no idea when something is posted to contributors or some other list. I do get most emails though... I think.

David
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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

David Muir
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
David Muir wrote
H Hatfield wrote
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Pádraic Brady <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Might I suggest we either take these ZF2 topics to zf-general (at least it
> will
> get more attention then! :P) or designate a zf-development ML for future
> use.
>

Do we know of people who would like to be involved in the process who
haven't known about this list? I think the list is easy to find for someone
who wants to be involved. I have not (yet) contributed to the project, but I
understand that this list is where the discussion happens regarding ZF
development.

I think the majority of the people subscribed to the other lists who are not
also subscribed to this list care less about _how_ ZF works and more _that_
ZF works. They don't want to get involved in a discussion on DI containers
or EventManagers. They want clear instructions on how ZF can help them solve
their problems.

Perhaps a message on the general list telling people about the discussions
happening here and on confluence would be good, but I don't see the need to
move the conversation.

H
The problem for me is Nabble. I probably should have signed up to the mailing list directly, but haven't gotten around to doing that. Nabble doesn't make any distinctions between the various lists, so I have no idea when something is posted to contributors or some other list. I do get most emails though... I think.

David
To clarify, I have Nabble send me the emails, which makes all emails come from the "Zend Framework Community" list. That said, I do think there are *way* too many mailing lists. Do we really need separate lists for auth, core, mvc, server, formats, gdata, database, web-services etc?
Doesn't it make more sense to have a users list and a developers list? The former, for those who are developing things with ZF, the latter for those who are developing ZF itself?

David
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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

Wil Moore III
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
Doesn't it make more sense to have a users list and a developers list? The former, for those who are developing things with ZF, the latter for those who are developing ZF itself?

+1 on the above suggestion.
--
Wil Moore III

Best Practices for Working with Open-Source Developers
http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch19s02.html

Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting:
http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html

DO NOT TOP-POST and DO trim your replies:
http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php#toppost
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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

ThaDafinser
In reply to this post by joelclermont
Hello,

i've posted today a bug about Zend_Date which i discovered, when using the
SHORT date format.

I don't know if my approach is wrong, so maybe someone can take a look on
it?

http://framework.zend.com/issues/browse/ZF-11390

Best regards
Martin Keckeis
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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

weierophinney
Administrator
In reply to this post by padraicb
-- Pádraic Brady <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Thursday, 19 May 2011, 06:08 AM -0700):
> In discussing mailing lists with someone, they noted we are all
> discussing ZF2 on a list called zf-contributors. I never really
> considered it before - but how many here are not a "contributor"?
> Isn't this the entirely wrong place to be having these discussions?
> Where's the non-contributor development mailing list?
>
> Might I suggest we either take these ZF2 topics to zf-general (at
> least it will get more attention then! :P) or designate a
> zf-development ML for future use.

As others on the list have pointed out, fw-general is meant as primarily
a support channel -- "how do I do XYZ?" and related answers/discussions.
This list is meant to discuss the development of the framework. Maybe it
should have been named "zf-dev" or "zf-internals"... but I think we've
called out its purpose fairly well on the wiki.

It may make sense to post a summary with some links to nabble threads
for folks who may be interested in commenting, but not to move the
discussions there.

BTW, there's some... configuration issues... between the list server and
our internal mail servers, which has resulted in me and my team not
getting a number of messages to this and other lists. Supposedly these
are now ironed out, but if you're awaiting comments on other threads,
that may be why. I'm going to go into Nabble and see if there are
threads I should comment on there later today.

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc

--
List: [hidden email]
Info: http://framework.zend.com/archives
Unsubscribe: [hidden email]


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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

padraicb
Hi all,

No worries. But I said I'd throw it out there anyway so folks are aware it could
be confusing.

Paddy

 Pádraic Brady

http://blog.astrumfutura.com
http://www.survivethedeepend.com
Zend Framework Community Review Team





________________________________
From: Matthew Weier O'Phinney <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, May 19, 2011 5:54:23 PM
Subject: Re: [zf-contributors] Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

-- Pádraic Brady <[hidden email]> wrote
(on Thursday, 19 May 2011, 06:08 AM -0700):
> In discussing mailing lists with someone, they noted we are all
> discussing ZF2 on a list called zf-contributors. I never really
> considered it before - but how many here are not a "contributor"?
> Isn't this the entirely wrong place to be having these discussions?
> Where's the non-contributor development mailing list?
>
> Might I suggest we either take these ZF2 topics to zf-general (at
> least it will get more attention then! :P) or designate a
> zf-development ML for future use.

As others on the list have pointed out, fw-general is meant as primarily
a support channel -- "how do I do XYZ?" and related answers/discussions.
This list is meant to discuss the development of the framework. Maybe it
should have been named "zf-dev" or "zf-internals"... but I think we've
called out its purpose fairly well on the wiki.

It may make sense to post a summary with some links to nabble threads
for folks who may be interested in commenting, but not to move the
discussions there.

BTW, there's some... configuration issues... between the list server and
our internal mail servers, which has resulted in me and my team not
getting a number of messages to this and other lists. Supposedly these
are now ironed out, but if you're awaiting comments on other threads,
that may be why. I'm going to go into Nabble and see if there are
threads I should comment on there later today.

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
Project Lead            | [hidden email]
Zend Framework          | http://framework.zend.com/
PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc

--
List: [hidden email]
Info: http://framework.zend.com/archives
Unsubscribe: [hidden email]
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Re: Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?

Ralph Schindler-2
Looking back, perhaps it would have (might still) make sense to follow
the pretty-standard formats from other groups:

[hidden email]
and
[hidden email]

pretty much breaking people out into "using zf" and also "developing zf".

But, we have what we have :)

-ralph

On 5/19/11 2:34 PM, Pádraic Brady wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> No worries. But I said I'd throw it out there anyway so folks are aware it could
> be confusing.
>
> Paddy
>
>   Pádraic Brady
>
> http://blog.astrumfutura.com
> http://www.survivethedeepend.com
> Zend Framework Community Review Team
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Matthew Weier O'Phinney<[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Thu, May 19, 2011 5:54:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [zf-contributors] Contributors vs Development vs General MLs?
>
> -- Pádraic Brady<[hidden email]>  wrote
> (on Thursday, 19 May 2011, 06:08 AM -0700):
>> In discussing mailing lists with someone, they noted we are all
>> discussing ZF2 on a list called zf-contributors. I never really
>> considered it before - but how many here are not a "contributor"?
>> Isn't this the entirely wrong place to be having these discussions?
>> Where's the non-contributor development mailing list?
>>
>> Might I suggest we either take these ZF2 topics to zf-general (at
>> least it will get more attention then! :P) or designate a
>> zf-development ML for future use.
>
> As others on the list have pointed out, fw-general is meant as primarily
> a support channel -- "how do I do XYZ?" and related answers/discussions.
> This list is meant to discuss the development of the framework. Maybe it
> should have been named "zf-dev" or "zf-internals"... but I think we've
> called out its purpose fairly well on the wiki.
>
> It may make sense to post a summary with some links to nabble threads
> for folks who may be interested in commenting, but not to move the
> discussions there.
>
> BTW, there's some... configuration issues... between the list server and
> our internal mail servers, which has resulted in me and my team not
> getting a number of messages to this and other lists. Supposedly these
> are now ironed out, but if you're awaiting comments on other threads,
> that may be why. I'm going to go into Nabble and see if there are
> threads I should comment on there later today.
>

--
List: [hidden email]
Info: http://framework.zend.com/archives
Unsubscribe: [hidden email]